Hearing on Proposed Grading Changes

[DrTimPerkins]

Vermont Maple Sugar Makers' Association

Public Comment Sought on Proposed Maple Grade Changes

The Vermont Agency of Agriculture, Food, and Markets, in partnership with the Vermont Sugarmakers Association and UVM Extension, will hold three public meetings to take comment on the proposed changes to the maple grading system.

The changes have been proposed to align the Vermont grading system with the standard recommended by the International Maple Syrup Institute. Members of the public will be given the opportunity to provide comment.

Meeting dates and locations are as follows:
• Tuesday, October 16 - Middlebury American Legion Post 27, 49 Wilson Road, Middlebury
• Wednesday, October 17 - South Woodstock Fire Station, Rt. 106, South Woodstock
• Thursday, October 18 - Lamoille Union Tech Center, Rt. 15, Hyde Park
The meetings will begin promptly at 7:00pm. After a brief presentation outlining the proposed changes, discussion will be moderated by Lynn Coale, Director of the Hannaford Career Center and a member of the Agriculture and Forest Products Development Board.

Input from these meetings will inform future consideration of the maple grading system standards.

For more information, please contact Henry Marckres at the Vermont Agency of Agriculture, Food, and Markets: 802-828-3458


To All VMSMA Members:

I would like to encourage all of you to attend at least one of the three informational meetings that will be held by the Vermont Agency of Agriculture, October 16, 17, and 18. An effort is being made to hold them at several locations so that you will not need to travel excessive distances to attend. Your attendance is very important whether you are in favor or not in favor of the proposed changes.

The directors of the VMSMA have voted unanimously to support the proposed Maple Syrup Grading changes. This process has been in the works for over 10 years and has also been approved by the board of directors of our International Maple Syrup Institute (IMSI), an organization which has representation from 12 US maple producing States and 4 Canadian Provinces. The proposed changes were the result of a lot of study, discussion, and negotiation. The final version, which is now proposed, is the one that was submitted by the Vermont Maple Industry Council to the IMSI and adopted at the October 2009 annual meeting which was held in Bar Harbor Maine.

The proposal would have Grade A with 4 Classes and Processing Grade. Vermont's more stringent density requirement will remain the same as they are now.

1.) The light transmittance of the lightest class (Golden Color and Delicate Taste) remains the same, at not less than 75% and Vermont producers may still use Fancy if they wish to, as long as the new terminology is also used.

2.) The next class, (Amber Color and Rich Taste) less than 75% to 50% light transmittance, includes the present Grade A medium amber and the top of the present Grade A dark amber.

3.) Dark Color and Robust Taste (the darker portion of the present A dark Amber and the lighter part of the present VT Grade B) less than 50% to 25% light transmittance.

4.) Very Dark Color and Strong Taste includes some syrup that is presently not legally able to be sold in retail containers. This will provide producers the ability to command a higher price for syrup that is only legally sold as commercial grade in bulk containers.
For Grade A, in all classes, the syrup must meet density requirements and be free from off or damaged flavors.

Processing grade: Fails other grade requirements (density, flavor, unfiltered, etc.).

For more information about these proposed changes, please take a look at the chart which compares the present assortment of maple grading that exists within the maple producing regions. To have them all be uniform and include some flavor characteristics, would put everybody on an even playing field and be much less confusing for consumers. This has been proven in consumer studies that have been conducted by the IMSI in some metropolitan areas.

Please make an effort to attend one of the meetings and bring some of your producer friends so that everybody who wants to ask questions or make comments will have the opportunity.

Thank you,
Jacques Couture, Chairman
VMSMA Board of Directors

[noreast maple]

DR. Tim, How come they are only having the meetings in the top half of state and at night time in middle of week? Its like the lower half of state dont matter, much like vtrans. some of southern nh would probably show up too if they were to hold one meeting further south. Just wondering and wondering why not on a saturday? Thanks in advance for a reply , Maybe? Noreast Maple.

[rgmaple]

Dr. Perkins - I have a question on the processing grade that is being offered for the new grading system with the light transmittance of less than 25%. As you know, buddy and sour syrup are often very light in color. Do these come under this catagory?

[red maples]

That has to a misprint in the card I have put out by the IMSI the very dark maple syrup says less than 25% Tc and strong taste.

they are as follows....
golden 75%
amber 75% to 50%
dark 50% to 25%
very dark less than 25%

So it basically saying that the Very dark syrup has no color end or it can be as dark as night as long as there are no off or damaging flavors.

As Far as commercial or processing grade they can be any color grade but again off or damaging flavors, ie buddy, burnt, chemical ,what ever the case may be, it can't be labeled anything else in the grade A catagories.

[rgmaple]

So, if I am reading this right - The "processing" grade will be anything that is basically crap, and whatever color it is, it is. There is no color scale to be met on this grade? This could look yellow and still be within the specs.

[red maples]

yep. Even by todays standards if its bad its bad period. your not going to take a syrup that is light or fancy in color but tastes very buddy and sell it!!!! You can't. just because a syrup comes out above the processing grade color characteristic doesn't mean it good syrup.

By NH standards right now Grade B has no bottom end color like VT does. So I can make syrup until its buddy reguardless of color. As long as it doesn't have off flavors to it and its darker than the dark color then its Grade B. and this is how it will be when new grading standards are in place for everyone. I personally don't understand the issue with a syrup being darker but still tastes good, I don't understand that one at all!!! but thats just me

[rgmaple]

I agree with you...I'm just wondering if the new maple laws agree with you on the color issue of the processed syrup. Does the processed syrup have to be very dark in color in order to be within the specs of "processed" which will not be sold as retail. With today's technology, the color does not relate to the flavor when it becomes buddy or sour. How does this work with the "new" standards and the light transmittance requirements.

[DrTimPerkins]

DR. Tim, How come they are only having the meetings in the top half of state and at night time in middle of week? Its like the lower half of state dont matter, much like vtrans. some of southern nh would probably show up too if they were to hold one meeting further south. Just wondering and wondering why not on a saturday? Thanks in advance for a reply , Maybe? Noreast Maple.

These meetings were arranged by the Vermont Agency of Agriculture, Food & Markets. They are for those producers and others from Vermont who are interested in how the Agency will deal with the proposed grade changes. I would imagine other states will handle it in their own fashion. Keep in mind I'm only passing on the info....I don't have any idea of the hows/whys/whens of decisions, but if I had to guess, I'd say that they are trying to cover as much of the state as possible, particularly those areas with fairly high concentrations of maple producers and others involved in the maple industry. Vermont isn't so large that it won't take anyone more than a couple of hours to get to one of these meetings.

[DrTimPerkins]

Dr. Perkins - I have a question on the processing grade that is being offered for the new grading system with the light transmittance of less than 25%. As you know, buddy and sour syrup are often very light in color. Do these come under this catagory?

No. Under the proposed regulations, off-flavored syrup of any type would be considered "Processing Grade" (equivalent to "Substandard" syrup currently), regardless of light transmittance. Also, buddy syrup is most often quite dark-colored (this year being an exception).

[DrTimPerkins]

So it basically saying that the Very dark syrup has no color end or it can be as dark as night as long as there are no off or damaging flavors.

Correct


As Far as commercial or processing grade they can be any color grade but again off or damaging flavors, ie buddy, burnt, chemical ,what ever the case may be, it can't be labeled anything else in the grade A catagories.

Correct. For detailed information on the proposed IMSI grade proposal, see http://www.internationalmaplesyrupinstitute.com/projects--services.html and scroll down to the grade standards sections.

[DrTimPerkins]

So, if I am reading this right - The "processing" grade will be anything that is basically crap, and whatever color it is, it is. There is no color scale to be met on this grade? This could look yellow and still be within the specs.

Correct. The original message I forwarded (below) says LT < 25%. That is not right. In actuality, Processing Grade can be any LT syrup that has other things that cause it to be unacceptable (unfiltered, damaged flavor, incorrect density, etc.).

[DrTimPerkins]

I agree with you...I'm just wondering if the new maple laws agree with you on the color issue of the processed syrup. Does the processed syrup have to be very dark in color in order to be within the specs of "processed" which will not be sold as retail. With today's technology, the color does not relate to the flavor when it becomes buddy or sour. How does this work with the "new" standards and the light transmittance requirements.

Processed grade in the proposed regulations can be ANY LT. The original email I forwarded was incorrect.

[DrTimPerkins]

yep. Even by todays standards if its bad its bad period. your not going to take a syrup that is light or fancy in color but tastes very buddy and sell it!!!! You can't. just because a syrup comes out above the processing grade color characteristic doesn't mean it good syrup.

Correct. People often use the term "Commercial" incorrectly. Buddy, sour, metabolized (or other off-flavor), low density (or high density in some areas), unfiltered, cloudy, etc. syrup is NOT Commercial syrup, it is "Substandard" syrup for reprocessing. It is not to be sold in retail quantities.


By NH standards right now Grade B has no bottom end color like VT does. So I can make syrup until its buddy reguardless of color. As long as it doesn't have off flavors to it and its darker than the dark color then its Grade B. and this is how it will be when new grading standards are in place for everyone. I personally don't understand the issue with a syrup being darker but still tastes good, I don't understand that one at all!!! but thats just me

It is not currently legal to sell syrup retail or wholesale with a LT less than 27% in Vermont.

Being able to sell strong-flavored (without off-flavors) dark syrup is one of the reasons for the proposed changes. Many consumers are asking for dark syrup, but legally, it is not possible to sell it in some areas.

[noreast maple]

Thank you DR. Tim for the reply, Just thoughts running through my mind . Thanks again for the reply.

[jlemieux]

Just wondering if anyone knows when the new grading kits will be available and if the State of Vermont will still be putting them out or approving them? Has anyone put much thought into how the new grading system will affect their prices?

thanks

[wiam]

My understanding is kits with new grades will be made after rules have changed. (not for 2013) I do not believe there will be any difference of approval process.

[802maple]

"""Correct. People often use the term "Commercial" incorrectly. Buddy, sour, metabolized (or other off-flavor), low density (or high density in some areas), unfiltered, cloudy, etc. syrup is NOT Commercial syrup, it is "Substandard" syrup for reprocessing. It is not to be sold in retail quantities."""


This statement is not exactly right , Buddy, sour, or off flavored syrup is most likely substandard, but is bought by the packers as commercial, thus sold as commercial. Commercial can not be sold in a retail container 5 gallons or less now. Low or High density syrup, unfiltered or cloudy syrup can be filtered and as long as it meets the LT, can be bottled and sold as the grade that it is determined both by flavor and color.

The problem I have with the new and present system is that some sugarmakers wouldn't know the flavor of a certain grade if it were right in front of them, but they can tell if it comes within the tolerances of color. Take this year as an example, the crap that was made after March 21st was mostly substandard, yet many sugarmakers on this site alone said they were making fancy and medium amber because it met the color standards. It isn't only this year, it has been nearly every year we have been pushing the season out for another week or two at the end despite what people promoting this think. I have tasted a fair amount of that syrup and it wasn't anywhere near the grade they stated it was, but in their mind it was because it met the criteria of color. I hope along with these standards that some education on flavor comes into play, because consumers don't have a grade kit, but they do have taste buds.

I know this next statement that I am going to say is going to get shot down, but I think all sugarmakers should have a certification in grading before they are allowed to sell syrup. I have said that for a long time. We all make mistakes time to time, as I sure have. Over the years though the maple industry has lowered it's standards as far as taste goes, the new term "acceptable flavor" really gets me. I have tasted syrup that was on store shelves by both producers and packers, that would curl your hair and when brought up to people in power the term "acceptable flavor" comes to the surface.

All I can say is that if we want a piece of that sweetner market, that the corn syrup people have, then it d&*n well better, taste better then theirs

[DrTimPerkins]

....Buddy, sour, or off flavored syrup is most likely substandard, but is bought by the packers as commercial, thus sold as commercial.

You are, without doubt, correct on that point. However, the syrup is still NOT truly Commercial syrup if it doesn't meet the standards of Commercial syrup (despite what it might be called)....it is Substandard....that is UNLESS it has been blended or otherwise reprocessed (density corrected, filtered) to meet the criteria for Commercial syrup (which does allow some level of off-flavor).


The problem I have with the new and present system is that some sugarmakers wouldn't know the flavor of a certain grade if it were right in front of them, but they can tell if it comes within the tolerances of color.

I agree. However since this is also a weakness of the current system, it shouldn't be used as an excuse to not support the new grading scheme.


Take this year as an example, the crap that was made after March 21st was mostly substandard, yet many sugarmakers on this site alone said they were making fancy and medium amber because it met the color standards.

Again, I completely agree. Syrup with a buddy off-flavor is SUBSTANDARD syrup, not Commercial syrup. It's a rather sad state of affairs when the best people can say about the syrup they made at that time is, "it's not that bad."


I know this next statement that I am going to say is going to get shot down, but I think all sugarmakers should have a certification in grading before they are allowed to sell syrup. I have said that for a long time.

I'm not doing any shooting. :) I'd actually go a bit further than that and say that in my opinion, maple producers who make any amount of product that they SELL should be required to be certified. If this includes training on grading, so much the better. However, this is not my battle to fight, it is up to the maple producers to decide where they should be going in regards to regulation.

During the VT maple industry retreat in 1998 (or 1999), this (required certification) was ranked to be the #1 goal for the industry over the next decade. We've not made a lot of progress on this front unfortunately.

In the course of our research, we've seen that even experienced producers have a very hard time grading/judging syrup on taste alone (when they aren't allowed to see the color of the syrup they are tasting).


All I can say is that if we want a piece of that sweetner market, that the corn syrup people have, then it d&*n well better, taste better then theirs

Amen

[red maples]

Honestly I hate certifications...but thats me(I am not a big regulations person). I would never sell "BAD" tasting syrup. but on the other hand, your absolutely right that certifications are needed. I have tasted stuff right off the shelves that just tasted bad. When ever I go out to a little place or even a touristy place I will buy a little nip or 1/2 pint to taste and see as I love testing my palet and tasting syrup.

I think some people just think that Grade B should contain a hint of off flavors, because its grade B and its supposed to.....Wrong. for me personally Grade B will have a strong flavor yes, but in my opinion it should always be able to be used as a table syrup. If you can't put it on pancakes and it tastes good then its commercial grade. can the flavors be blended out sure, but you should be able to pick out the bad flavors.

I do want to take a grading course but I have been stalling, for one reason I am waiting for one to come to NH and second I was waiting for the new grading system to come out but that doesn't look like its gonna happen until late 2013 into 2014 if they are lucky. aaaaaahhhhh the speed of government!!!

[wiam]

If you can't put it on pancakes and it tastes good then its commercial grade.

I disagree with this statement. If you can not eat it on pancakes it is subtandard not commercial.

[802maple]

(((In the course of our research, we've seen that even experienced producers have a very hard time grading/judging syrup on taste alone (when they aren't allowed to see the color of the syrup they are tasting))).


I would have loved to been part of that research.

[red maples]

I disagree with this statement. If you can not eat it on pancakes it is subtandard not commercial.

I agree to disagree. Its Potato : Patato this is why we need the same standards across the board!!! and not to start a war but to me it is the same as fancy vs light amber as far as I am concerned and I do know its a pride thing with VT, I understand that.

Tech. speaking yes commercial is substandard. So if you take buddy syrup which yes is substandard and that just straight out doesn't tast good but has proper density and is filtered and you take it bascom's what does he buy it as? " commercial grade" it is substandard..... I believe and I could be wrong, its mostly blended and sold for super cheap to the big food proccessing companies for a maple additive which is 4 % maple syrup and 90% corn syrup or what ever and 6% other junk. Although he is probably over run with junk syrup and I don't even know if they are taking it especially after last year. Hense the term processing grade. So call what you will commercial, mersh, processing, substandard, junk, buddy, nasty reguardless you can't sell it retail.

[DrTimPerkins]

I would have loved to been part of that research.

Nothing planned for the immediate future, but next time we do one of these tests I'll let you know.

[rgmaple]

If the color grade for the very dark (#4) is less than LT 25, then I think this is way too dark. The larger producters who make and sell large quanities of this don't make it that dark with the strong flavor.

[802maple]

I have to respectfully disagree with you on that statement Red Maples that the commercial only gets used in sweeteners. Don't let anybody fool you, that product gets put right into their packer blend syrup that sell as dark amber. They mix it into enough good syrup to make an "acceptable flavor", which I stated above really gets my goat. Packer blend is pure maple of a recipe of grades to become dark amber. Just go into a grocery store and buy some dark amber from a major packer and see if it tastes as good as yours. I love my maple but more then not I would just soon have Vermont Maid as what is being put on the shelf by some packers.



Thanks Tim, I would love to be more involved in these type of things.





If the color grade for the very dark (#4) is less than LT 25, then I think this is way too dark. The larger producters who make and sell large quanities of this don't make it that dark with the strong flavor.

I had a neighbor this year that made 5000 gallons of the syrup.

[rgmaple]

To (802 Maple) Your neighbor made 5000 gallons of nearly black maple syrup this year?

[802maple]

To (802 Maple) Your neighbor made 5000 gallons of nearly black maple syrup this year?

I guess I misread your post, but they did make 5000 gallons of very strong syrup after March 21, that would fall in commercial or substandard no matter what color it was. The old grade system was 27 LT and the new would be 25LT, so it would be a benefit to the large or small producer that makes dark syrup with a"""" GOOD FLAVOR"""" not what a lot of sugarmakers call acceptable.

[rgmaple]

If the color grade for the very dark (#4) is less than LT 25, then I think this is way too dark. The larger producters who make and sell large quanities of this don't make it that dark with the strong flavor.

I still feel the same about this grade. The color standard is too dark. If the maximum LT was equal to 25, it would work, but the MINIMUM LT is 25.

[Homestead Maple]

I agree with what you say about the blend syrup. I bought some 'light' maple syrup from a major packer one time and the flavor was anything but light. Same thing for the syrup you buy that is sold on many super market store shelves. But, Vermont Maid? I'll keep looking or go without. :) :)
I have to respectfully disagree with you on that statement Red Maples that the commercial only gets used in sweeteners. Don't let anybody fool you, that product gets put right into their packer blend syrup that sell as dark amber. They mix it into enough good syrup to make an "acceptable flavor", which I stated above really gets my goat. Packer blend is pure maple of a recipe of grades to become dark amber. Just go into a grocery store and buy some dark amber from a major packer and see if it tastes as good as yours. I love my maple but more then not I would just soon have Vermont Maid as what is being put on the shelf by some packers.



Thanks Tim, I would love to be more involved in these type of things.






I had a neighbor this year that made 5000 gallons of the syrup.

[vtmapleman]

The subject of changing grades is going to be an interesting subject in the coming months. I do not have a problem with the 25LT it is time the we recognize that there are some folks who want this darker syrup but under today's rule we cannot legally sell unless it is sold in a 5 gallon container...wonder how many gallon containers are going out the back door of some sugarhouses. Also, so much of our total production is no longer sold within the state. If you want to compete on the global market we need to all be using the same grade/description terms no matter were you are from.

[farmall h]

I agree with the new grade standards that will be put forth. This grading scheme promotes the color & flavor of the product vs. A-light amber, Medium Amber, Dark Amber and so on...As discussed in the Maple Digest, the syrup color and flavor will be better understood by consumers. In my opinion, I feel that many consumers think if they purchase Light Amber(Fancy) vs. Dark Amber (A or B) they are buying a better product, when really they are buying the same quality of syrup, just a different flavor and thickness. It's all about the consumers...... after all.

[wiam]

The subject of changing grades is going to be an interesting subject in the coming months. I do not have a problem with the 25LT it is time the we recognize that there are some folks who want this darker syrup but under today's rule we cannot legally sell unless it is sold in a 5 gallon container...wonder how many gallon containers are going out the back door of some sugarhouses. Also, so much of our total production is no longer sold within the state. If you want to compete on the global market we need to all be using the same grade/description terms no matter were you are from.

Henry told us at the Hyde Park hearing that they know about the dark syrup going out the back door but ignore it. He also said that at present time it is not legal to sell "substandard" syrup in any size container. The new law will change that to make it legal to sell it "bulk"