Maples ; syrup or wood

[philkasza]

We were thinking of planting about 20 acres of maples. I talked to a local forestor and he said I would be foolish to tap those but rather grow them for top quality lumber or vineer 30 or 40 yrs down the road. According to our calculations on a 20" maple when you tap it you have decreased the bottom 8' log by $500, so that would take alot of sap to repay that much. So should we even tap them in 10 yr. or just grow timber. Also if I go rent woods for tapping how do tell the owner that tapping them is better than growing timber when they may only get $1/tap/yr. rent -- at that rate it would take 500 yrs. of tapping to break even. So I guess I was wondering how I can feel right with paying someone $1/tap and damaging their tree by $500?

Sam

[Thad Blaisdell]

I can tell you that a 20 year old maple wont even be big enough to tap. You wont have to worry about harvesting a maple log in your lifetime so make sure you figure that in. Any work you do will more likely be for the next generation or even the next after that.

Good luck

[sugaringman85]

I've done the calculations on this, over time you make more money sugaring than you do with cutting it for lumber. To many variables with cutting the tree. Also it takes 60-100 years to make a veneer size log. You can tap that tree closer to 50 years unless you are doing some intensive management. I never ran the numbers on renting an orchard, which may be a closer number than owning your own tree. 500 bucks for a 8 foot butt log is pretty steep. here in the northeast, or at least my area we're pretty excited about a 50 dollar butt log!

[wiam]

I would also point out that in most forests there are not many veneer logs. By my "international 1/4 inch kerf" log rule an 8' log 20" has 135 board ft in it. If it is graded pallet it would be about $21 locally. 1A would be $91. By my math your $500 log would have to sell for over $3700/M. Not going to happen here. I also do not believe that you will take all the tapping stain out with an 8' log. If we could all make $500 from one log out of each tree syrup would get pretty expensive.

[jmayerl]

I talked to a guy in northern Wisconsin that was paying a premium for large stained maple butts. He must have some sort of market since my buddy sent his logs 300 miles there.

[tuckermtn]

Plant the maples, wait 50 years, mark the best quality sawlog trees, and tap the rest. I did a harvest of 125,000 bf of sugar maple two and a half years ago and including veneer, we averaged $875 per MBF, or .875 per BF. It was some nice wood. so your hypothetical 135 bf log would earn $118 based on our average.

We did have some veneer that did hit $5500 mbf, but it was only about 2000ft that fetched that top dollar. Veneer average was closer to $2300/mbf.

[Maple Hill]

I talked to a guy in northern Wisconsin that was paying a premium for large stained maple butts. He must have some sort of market since my Buddy sent his logs 300 miles there. Maple stained wood is being used to make furniture,interior trim and high priced flooring.

[lew]

I can't testify to log prices, but I can to tree growth rate. We planted 20+ hard maples along our driveway 19 years ago, the year my oldest daughter was born. The largest was as big around as my thumbe, the smallest as big around as my index finger. Today they average 8 inches dbh. they have zero competition with big full crowns. some od the crowns are just starting to touch. they also have a SE exposure. These trees are growing the fastest they ever will right now. As they age the growth rate will slow down. So, my opinion of your forester telling you that in 50 years you will have veneer saw logs dosen't add up in my book. My trees with no competition could be 19.5 inches at dbh in another 31 years at the currrent grwoth rate. Remember though that they have limbs all the way down to where they smack you in the head when you are mowing (pita). This makes for a lot off leaf area and a potential for a higher growth rate. Planted in a forest type situation the growth rate will be much slower. Thinking about it, I can remember where I got these trees from and similar trees that were not taken to plant, are roughly half the diameter of the trees that were taken today. They are tall and spindly, with no top. Just my observations.

[DrTimPerkins]

We were thinking of planting about 20 acres of maples. I talked to a local forestor and he said I would be foolish to tap those but rather grow them for top quality lumber or vineer 30 or 40 yrs down the road.

Very few trees in a woods will ever end up as veneer trees. You can certain increase the chances of veneer-quality timber by regular thinning (to promote growth) and heavy pruning (to reduce knots), and great care in doing woods-work to reduce stem damage to the butt log. In most circumstances it is going to take longer (perhaps WAY longer) than 40 years to get a tree to merchantable size for veneer.

This argument has come up a number of times, and there have been several studies to look at it over the past 50 years. Most are done by state or Provincial Forestry Departments. To generalize, in most timber markets, for most circumstances, if you use tubing and vacuum, you wind up better off (higher net profit) tapping the trees than cutting them (if you're making the syrup yourself, even in a bulk syrup market....the equation is different if you're selling sap, or leasing trees). You make a little income each year sugaring, versus selling timber once every 80-120+ years).

I think Mike Farrell of Cornell University has a calculator that can help determine whether it is better to cut or tap individual trees. Quite simply, if it might be a veneer tree, don't tap it.

[Thad Blaisdell]

When I am in my woods, My saying is:

No Maple Left Behind

[maple flats]

I agree. I buy logs on a small scale. The chance for any planting to have a high percentage of veneer logs is extremely low. As Dr Tim says, if it looks like a veneer log don't tap but tap everything else. I the woods I tap,(rented bush) I have marked a few trees that might make veneer, all else are tapped. The marked ones even though they look like possible veneer can't truly be graded until cut because the centers must also be good. It is also possible that 50-150 yrs ago they were tapped and no trace shows now. To be veneer a log must be at least 18" on the small end and 24"+ is graded better. That will never happen in 50 yrs in a woods setting and only very remotely possible in an open setting. But then you don't get veneer in the yard tree, only in crowded woods settings. The trees need to be fighting for sun to grow tall and straight and to shed the lower limbs early on. A maple tree like most others have branches to hold the leaves, if a branch is not contributing to the sugar production of that tree the tree shuts it down, the limb dies and falls off. Good forest management helps by removing those limbs sooner but there are very few veneer logs made by doing so. Most are natural because of competition.

[hookhill]

Most foresters work on a a percentage during a timber sale. So if you are a forester trying to make a living, sugaring operations are not in your best interest. Foresters dont usually make any money off of sugaring operations. This situation leads to a number of heads butting out in the woods. To make matters more complicated many foresters work for landowners who dont log or sugar. The forester is going not going to recommend sugaring operations to naive land owners.

[PerryFamily]

I personally thing furniture and flooring from previously tapped maple trees is beautiful.
Bascoms had some end tables and a bench that is pretty nice.
Allard Lumber in Brattleboro also has their office wainscoting in holy ( no pun intended ) stained maple. It looks super nice.

[maple flats]

In limited markets tapwood sometimes commands a premium price. The problem is this is the exception rather than the rule, but it is gaining.