used stainless tanks

[mountain man maple]

I have the chance to buy two tanks which are stainless were used on firetrucks. Tanks are 12 gauge I think welded seams are rusting. Looks like it was mig welded. Would like anyone's input one these. Would you buy them even though they had water which was not potable in them? Any thoughts would be appreciated thanks

[spud]

If the price is right I would buy them. A little cleaning and their as good as new.

Spud

[Bucket Head]

Stainless welds rust due to incorrect welding or wire brushing the welds with a regular steel bristled wire brush. Unfortunate, but it happens often. I would'nt pass on them because of that. They are still usable. Whatever sediment is in the bottom of them from the lake/stream/pond water is cleanable and nothing toxic was in them, right? I would snag them before someone else does, as long as they are reasonably priced. Do you know what the capacities are on them?

Steve

[Bucket Head]

I guess I type slower than Spud does...lol. -Steve

[mountain man maple]

Rough estimate on tanks are 2300 gal and 700 gal. Only other problem is baffles in tank would make difficult to clean but I think I can remove them since they are only in there for transport

[spud]

I guess I type slower than Spud does...lol. -Steve

I only beat you by 5 minutes.:lol:

Spud

[maple maniac65]

Would you buy them even though they had water which was not potable in them? Any thoughts would be appreciated thanks


some fire depts run a chemical in the water that makes the water wetter. I do not know if it leaves a residue in ss tanks or not. It has been said here before that non potable tanks are always non potable and should be used as such.

[jmayerl]

Been a FF/medic for 11 years, there are no chemicals added to stainless tanks. All foam is injected post pump. Fire department tankers make great sap hauler since most trucks have next to no miles on them yet are very well cared for.

[wiam]

Been a firefighter for over 25 years. In this part of VT we sometimes add foam concentrate to water tanks. There are also around the pump foam systems that can recirculate concentrate back into the tank. I personally have pumped out flooded basements, with oil tanks in them, with a firetruck pump. I would not risk putting sap into these tanks. But I guess we can go back to the Round-Up tank debate again.

[spud]

Back on the farm we had milking units fall off cows and suck up manure quite often. A good cleaning with dairy acid and your back up and running. We certainly did not throw the stainless pail milker away because of a little cow poop. These tanks are stainless and they can be cleaned to look like new again with very little effort. If you wait much longer these tanks will be sold to someone else. If the price is right go get them now.

Spud

[mountain man maple]

I don't have to worry about someone else buying at this point I don't know what to do. don't want to make someone sick and that rusty area concerns me. Just want to make sure buying them for storage is the right thing.

[Thad Blaisdell]

Cow poop is not the issue, its the chemicals in the foam. If they have had those chemicals steer clear. This goes back to the debate about the tank that had Roundup in it.

[wiam]

Thad but Round up has a very short half life.................

[mountain man maple]

Have no way of finding out if chemicals were used in them maybe its best to leave them go.

[Thad Blaisdell]

That is why I love you wiam, lol

[walnutdalefarm]

My raw sap tank is a former firetruck tank which was being used as a potable water hauler till they wrecked the truck. The tank started as a milk truck tank. Fire company added baffles, water company cut them out. I assumed the water co. had it check before he labeled it potable. Also i had committed to buy an old truck form New Centerville vol. fire co. when the water co. contacted me because they really needed a complete truck fast. So i am guessing they are easy to get potable certified.

[halfast tapper]

Fill tanks up with water take a water sample from your water source and one from in the tank to see if there are any contaminates. I would buy them if they are cheap enough, you can always sell them for scrap.

[happy thoughts]

Fill tanks up with water take a water sample from your water source and one from in the tank to see if there are any contaminates. I would buy them if they are cheap enough, you can always sell them for scrap.

The problem with that approach is that first you need to know what you're looking for in order to test for it. You can't send out a sample and assume or even expect that all possible contaminates are being tested for.

[jmayerl]

Cow poop is not the issue, its the chemicals in the foam. If they have had those chemicals steer clear. This goes back to the debate about the tank that had Roundup in it.

So its ok to use a "bulk milk tank" but not this one he is talking about. This very same debate could be said about ANY tank. Just because it is a used bulk tank doesn't mean it wasn't used at the roundup factory for storage and then sold on Craigslist by some farmer.

I guess the only possible way to know if a tank is suitable for use would be to forge the steel and weld up the tank yourself. Since I can't do that I am just going to have to assume that my bulk tank and 5 food grade totes have not been responsible for making my friends, family and customers sick or dead in the last 3 years.

I guess this whole thread just goes back to my theory that we need to start teaching common sense is grade school because some people just don't have it anymore. Use your senses and look the tank over well;smells, rust, over all inner condition. If after sticking your head in you have some doubts, well then just pass it up.

[Thad Blaisdell]

Its crap like this that will eventually land this industry samck in the middle of govt oversight. This is qoing to effect the small producer way more than it will ever effect me. Sadly I can say that most small operations that I have seen need to be shut down anyway as I would not eat their syrup on anything.
Now once all of this happens the only way to get a tank is new, then what do you think the prices will look like. Once leader, cdl and the rest know that they have us over a barrel look out prices are going up.

Why would you even begin to compomise the quality of the syrup you work so hard to make. Especially the smaller producer who sells to friends and family and eats a good amount yourself. Any pollutants and its you and your customer that suffers.

You have to ask yourself if that really good deal really is a good deal.

[spud]

You are absolutely right Thad. It's the little guy that will get hurt the most from all the new regulations that we all know will happen. It's only a matter of time and when it happens the little guy will have to get $100.00 a gallon just to cover his/her cost. And when that happens then all the big operations who want to sell a jug of syrup for $38.00 a gallon will be looked at like scum. The little guy's will be saying the big operations are ruining the industry.

Spud

[mountain man maple]

I dont understand why this has now turned into bash the small producer. I mean at what size do I now become a small producer? I thought this was a website for information not to take shots at any size producer. I am sure we could all find producers of any size of who's product or facilities do not suit us. Here in Pennsylvania if we want to sell any syrup we must be inspected by the state no matter what our size. These tanks do not have sanitary welds in them and the chance of a chemical is not worth the risk. But like was said I bought a used bulk milk tank and it could have had a chemical in it also. So I guess it comes down to without buying new tanks we never know. I think I will pass on these tanks even though they are cheap. Thanks for all the input.

[Thad Blaisdell]

I am sure not bashing the small producer, that is a fact. I dont see Spud bashing them either. But what we are saying is that its the small producer that is using these tanks of questionable lineage. If a tank comes straight out of a milk house, perfect. Or from a reputable source that took it from a farmer perfect. But to know that it started out questionable.... that is iffy at best. When we all work as hard and as long as we do to make the best product we can, we sholdnt use iffy tanks. That is all I am saying.

[spud]

I support the smaller producers 100%. All I am saying is in a lot of cases the smaller operations have spent more money per tap to set up their operation. Because of this they have to charge more for a gallon of syrup in most cases. If the government jumps in and comes up with new regulations causing us all to buy only stainless tanks with a maple sap approved stamp on the side then it's going to cost everyone a bunch of money. First the price of stainless tanks will triple. If you have not noticed the price for those smaller stainless tanks are a lot more money per gallon then the big ones. After next season I plan to buy two 6-8000 gallon sap tanks just to have on hand for future expansion because I see the price of tanks sky rocketing in the next few years. Organic is already requiring them (I am organic). All it is going to take is a batch of bad syrup that makes someone sick and we are all going to pay for it. We should be doing all we can to produce top quality sap and syrup.

Spud

[maple flats]

I think we should concentrate on things that will make the best possible syrup, big or small should make no difference.

[Maplewalnut]

The number of large producers I have seen that have not kept up with industry standards far outweighs the small producers of the same. These 'old timers' have more of an impact on the market than someone selling to friends and family and the occasional farmers market. Just saying...

[spud]

I think we should concentrate on things that will make the best possible syrup, big or small should make no difference.

I agree with both you and Maplewalnut. A guy making 15,000 gallons of syrup using poor equipment is far worse then a guy making 25 gallons selling to his family and friends. We all need to work hard on making the best quality syrup we can.

Spud

[AdirondackSap]

I have a 1250 gallon bulk milk tank and several 300 gallon bulk milk all ss. I bought them from a farmer my dad worked with. Knowing they came right from the farm only stored milk which is a food product how is this bad? How could the Govt come in and tell me i cant use them to store sap when they stored milk. Im just starting out and there just going to kill the little guys with regulation. There going to tell us they we have to buy tanks from an approved manufacturer and come in and inspect everything and fine the hell out of you if you dont comply.

[PerryFamily]

Well said mapleflats. There are producers both big and small that have questionable procedures for sure. The last thing we need as a industry in big brother mandating procedures and products that we must buy. I laugh when I go to Bascoms and on route 123A and there is some pipeline dumping into plastic trash containers. ( Presuming NOT Bascoms ) It is this type of stuff that really should not happen. Or the guys making syrup in a stall in the cow barn ( which still has cows ) and cans ( no pun intended ) into mason jars, ( which now have a niter / scum on the bottom from poor filtering or density) for retail sales. Would you eat their syrup? I wouldn't. If this type of production wants to produce for themselves and family, I guess thats one thing, but that rarely is the case. Proper equipment is made for a reason. Not saying you need to head out and purchase new shiny stainless everything, but try to do everything correctly and take pride in what you produce.
I do a lot of work for the first and largest ( I think? ) organic veggie farm in the state. I have seen the type of hoops they have to jump through for veggies and other food products. I hope this industry never sees that.
I guess in short, take PRIDE in what you do, after all syrup is a food product.

[halfast tapper]

The problem with that approach is that first you need to know what you're looking for in order to test for it. You can't send out a sample and assume or even expect that all possible contaminates are being tested for.
Actually you don't need to know what your looking for. When you send a sample you can specify to look for all harmfull contaminates that would make it non drinkable.

[Bucket Head]

I've seen a lot of examples of what Maplewalnut is talking about. I've seen all sorts of things used for both gathering and holding tanks, and everyone using these things knows there are better options out there. Knowing that regulation might be (or will be?) right around the corner, using questionable equipment is foolish. Sometimes you really shake your head after seeing some things. A while back I saw an old, leaded-soldered, galvanized tank, with the inside of it painted, being used as a holding tank. And to top all of that, it was full of bird droppings from the nests above in the rafters! Not exactly what I, a future customer or a future inspector wants to see. As mentioned before, we're making a food product. Many producers, both large and small, need to start using more common sense when they choose equipment. If they don't, we will all be forced to comply with regulations a lot sooner than we ever imagined.

[happy thoughts]

Actually you don't need to know what your looking for. When you send a sample you can specify to look for all harmfull contaminates that would make it non drinkable.

I'm going to respectfully disagree. You can have tests run for groups of contaminants, for example, heavy metals, pesticides, volatile organic solvents and fuels, but some contaminants might still get missed. Also at this level of testing you are already talking several hundred dollars. IMHO it would be better to put that money into a new SS tank.