Economics of hauling sap

[OneLegJohn]

I have been pondering expanding operations to a nearby woods (1-2 miles away). I have considered the best way to haul sap. To me, it make's sense to use one of Ray Gingerich's gas powered RO's to A) create room in the collection tank, B) reduce the number of trips and gas usage collecting sap. Does anyone else find that hauling 4-6% sap is worth the investment over hauling 2% sap? I do think Ray's RO's are changing the game a little.

[Dennis H.]

One big issue will be that you will be sitting there in the woods waiting for the RO to finish. This will be good time to clean things or get the evap ready to fire up when done running the Sao thru.

I pondered this same thought when I decided to setup tubing at my dads cabin. It will be 27 miles one way. There is electric at the cabin and it is heated. I figured that what better place to concentrate the sap and haul only a few gals home , but when I thought it thru what would take me about 1 1/2 hrs running for sap would then take me who knows how long waiting for the RO to finish then rinsing the RO then getting it shut down for the day.

Now I will be hauling raw sap and let the RO run after I get home with the sap while I sleep. Then run the rinse while I am boiling the sap after waking up.

[spud]

I have been pondering expanding operations to a nearby woods (1-2 miles away). I have considered the best way to haul sap. To me, it make's sense to use one of Ray Gingerich's gas powered RO's to A) create room in the collection tank, B) reduce the number of trips and gas usage collecting sap. Does anyone else find that hauling 4-6% sap is worth the investment over hauling 2% sap? I do think Ray's RO's are changing the game a little.

I sell all my sap and will have 6500 taps for next season. I am looking to buy an RO to cut down on the amount of trips the sap truck has to make. It does seem like having an RO would help you also. I will be getting paid extra for this processed sap. This not only helps me but it helps the person buying my sap. As soon as my sap gets to their sugar house they can boil it. The guy I sell sap to will have close to 50,000 taps in 4-5 different woods. I know he has ROs set up at different locations to save on trucking.

Spud

[delivron]

6500 taps could yield 20 gallons of sap ROed to 14 bricks would yield 17,742 gallons of concentrated sap annually.
Without the RO you would have a 130,000 gallon challenge. This assumes you start with 2.0 brix of sap and you yield 1/2 gal syrup per tree on the high yield end.
If you yield 10 gallons of sap per tree drop the number by 50%.

[lew]

It all depends on how many taps you are adding on. If it's under 1,000 I'd say no way. Put an RO in the sugarhouse if you don't already have one. Haul first load in , fire up RO, get another load, fire up evaporator and go. It's only 2 miles you said. That's not that far to haul. Having an RO at one location and boiling at another presents many logistic problems. Like when you fire up the RO and Leave it to run while you come home to bed and the RO shuts down because of high pressure or a plugged filter, then you show up looking to haul your concentrate away and you don't have any, only more sap that ran throuhg the night than you know what to do with. If the Ro is at your place you can monitor it much more easily. I have concentrated sap from 3,500 taps that was 40 miles from the sugrahouse and hauled back the concentrate. It was a neat deal being able to boil right away, BUT, I had a hired man running the RO and hauling sap from that woods exclusively. WIthout him I couldn't have done it. I now have 4,000 taps within 8 miles and haul every drop of sap to the RO. Much more control. Besides there is enough headaches keeping vacuum up at different woods without adding an RO in the mix. Just my thoughts from my experiences.

[maple flats]

I bought my RO from Ray Gingerich (Amish) and he said he makes his gas powered RO's for fellow Amish who do just that, RO in the woods and haul concentrate. I prefer hauling raw. For some reasons my reasons/concerns are:
How do you rinse RO in field, do you have a permeate tank?
Concentrate spoils quickly unless cold, if concentrate temp is higher than mid 30's the concentrated micro-organisims multiply far too fast. Concentrate has a very short life without degrading. (However, there is a producer friend who I sold raw sap to in the 2011 season, on Tues and Wed., he RO'd to 8%, some he boiled on Wednesday and made Medium A, the rest he stored it in a refrigerated tank at 30 degrees F . On Saturday at open house he made some nice medium A syrup with it, thus if kept cold enough it will keep a few days)
My RO matches my evaporator, I concentrate until I have about 15 gal concentrate and then I start the evaporator, by the time the evaporator is boiling good I am at about 30-35 gal concentrate in the head tank. That hovers between 25-40 until I'm done RO-ing and then when I get to 18-20 gal in the head tank I stop firing. Then I raise the flue pan level about 1/2-3/4 inch higher when I'm down to about 10 gal concentrate to get it all boiling to kill any micro's. When the fire burns out and I finish clean up I have maybe 3/4" over the flues. The next time at start up the level is about 1/4" low (I normally run at 1/2" over flues).
If you RO at the woods however, you would have plenty of time to check for leaks but I prefer to do that separately. I wouldn't want to be 1/2 mile back in my sugar bush if the RO stops on high pressure. An RO needs tending, occasionally adjusting the flow rate and if the back pressure climbs after you leave the RO to check your woods, you might return to a job not done and the RO shut down.

[OneLegJohn]

Good points, Dave. I do know Ray, he tubed my woods. As far as hauling, you're right - sugar is bug food. To that point, would a UV light help? It is an interesting cost analysis. I wonder if there is a payback if you could exchange membranes (even housings) and clean them at the sugarhouse...do the maintenance while running the evaporator. Generating and storing permeate in the woods doesn't sound like fun.

[mapleack]

If it's only 2 miles away don't put the RO there unless there's 20k taps. If there's 20k taps, move your sugarhouse. You need to be able to check on the RO occasionally, then flush, wash, rinse, etc. This takes time and someone who knows what they are doing. You can have a friend or hired hand haul sap, that doesn't take alot of brains, keep the RO at the sugarhouse. I also assume you'd like to RO the sap from your other trees as well, another reason to put it at the sugarhouse! Edit: I just looked at your signature and see you already have an RO. I'd say trade it in on whatever size you need to handle the additional taps all in one place. Good luck!