growing maple trees

[philkasza]

Has there been any experience with growing maple trees for a sugaring woods in ten to twelve years ? I didn't know if with irragation the maple grow that fast? Any thoughts or ideas are appreciated.

thanks in advance
Philip Kasza

[mapleack]

RPM, root production method trees have been discussed on here before. The link below is to the original nursery, in Missouri. They are advertising Cornell sweet trees now. They had a nursery in NY that went out of business a year or two ago. I believe they are wholesale only, but I'm not sure what their minimum order is.

http://www.fknursery.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/home.showpage/pageID/18/index.htm

[Clarkfield Farms]

Hi - make sure that if the area you'll be planting the maples in has goldenrod or asters growing in it now, that you get rid of the asters and goldenrod for at least 2 or 3 years before planting the maples. I still have not received a qualified, direct answer to my questions regarding the longevity of the allelopathic effects upon maples that goldenrod and asters produce, but size of the saplings is important. Mowing one year is not enough - as long as the roots (of the goldenrod and/or asters, not meaning the maples! :)) are alive, they'll be able to exude the chemicals that impact seed germination and sapling growth of maples. Make sure that whatever means you use to eradicate the goldenrod and aster (mowing, RoundUp*, etc.) has indeed killed the roots, then begin counting time from that point. Also be sure that enough time transpires from herbicide application to safely plant the maples. From what I can find, minimum tree size of 4-5 feet tall "should" be okay. I'd hate to take that as a definitive answer when shelling out around $15 per sweet maple. Bottom line, IF you have goldenrod or asters growing, talk to the folks at Cornell before you plant maples there. I've corresponded with the folks at Cornell and as many of the producers of sweet maples that I could find, and received replies that they were at least going to look more into the old document that's referenced in the thread linked below.

See here: http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?16178-Things-I-Never-Knew...&highlight=goldenrod

[philkasza]

Has anybody ever bought any sweet sap silver maples from St. Lawrence nursry in Potsdam NY?
We were looking at putting in 4500 sweet maples in and didnt know if they sell high quality trees or not .
thanks Philip

[lastwoodsman]

Your going to be limited as to where you can find them. St. Lawrence is the only one I know of producing them. We are looking at that possibility.
They are a silver maple and have a wide adaptability. I recieved a bundle of 5 this spring for trial plants to see how they preform in the landscape.
I would think planted in old farm fields as and orchard you could be tapping in 8 to 10 years without to much trouble.
Finding stock at this point will be difficult.
Personally I would line out sugar and or silver 4 or 5 foot light brached trees for cost and preformance.

[philkasza]

Personally I would line out sugar and or silver 4 or 5 foot light brached trees for cost and preformance.

Are you saying we should get small trees (4 Ft. and smaller) or big trees (6-8 ft. trees.) We want to be tapping them as soon as possible so we will pay a little more in the initial planting to gain a yr. or two of tapping.

Sam

[lastwoodsman]

It would all depend on your budget and what is available. But if affordable go with the largest tree available. Bareroot if possible to keep costs low and trees large.. Unless going with regular sugars or silvers I doubt you can get the so called super sweet maples in a large size as I know of no one growing them.. 1 Inch 1 1/4 or even larger. The sizes in calliper are measure 6 inches from the ground line.
Feel free to ask any questions. Remember they will need to be watered the first couple of years until established.

[Sunday Rock Maple]

A friend planted a dozen of the Silver Maples from SLN this spring and only lost one, they were good quality trees --- can't imagine a harvest in even 20 years though, I'd bet 30 at best.

[lastwoodsman]

A silver maple on average soil even here in the midwest will attain 10 to 12 inches easily in 10 years, just tappable size. I think of all the old dairy farms where I grew up and if I were 20 and if I had the cash, I would love plant the old fields in Silvers or sugars and lay them out for vacuum. Within 10 to 12 years you would be in production.
Lota ifs in there.

[Kngowods]

I just bought 10 of those super sweet silver maples and 5 sugar maples from st Lawrence this spring seemed like good healthy trees!! Had a couple die from the Rabits and deer and I did water every 3 days no matter what. I will buy more

[spud]

I just bought 10 of those super sweet silver maples and 5 sugar maples from st Lawrence this spring seemed like good healthy trees!! Had a couple die from the Rabits and deer and I did water every 3 days no matter what. I will buy more

How much were they? Do you get a deal if you buy bulk? I was fixing some mainline the other day where I had it side tied to another 6 inch maple. I used tubing as a tree wrap on that 6 inch tree just to protect it. This has only been in place for 11 months a I noticed there was a 3/8 inch indentation on the tree. That little tree must have grown over 1/2 in 11 months time. Pretty neat to see what I'm getting for growth rate in my woods. This must be a sign of good soils.

Spud

[lastwoodsman]

How much were they? Do you get a deal if you buy bulk? I was fixing some mainline the other day where I had it side tied to another 6 inch maple. I used tubing as a tree wrap on that 6 inch tree just to protect it. This has only been in place for 11 months a I noticed there was a 3/8 inch indentation on the tree. That little tree must have grown over 1/2 in 11 months time. Pretty neat to see what I'm getting for growth rate in my woods. This must be a sign of good soils.

Spud

When doing growth studies over the years shade trees will put on head or branch growth throughout the summer months but trunk caliper occurs the most late summer generally in late August and Sept depending on the genus of tree species. If takeing the caliper of a tree monthly at 12 inches from the ground in June/July and then monthly through fall when the tree goes dormant you will see the amazing amount of growth in caliper put on late in the season.

[twitch]

"The real meaning of life is to plant a tree who's shade you never expect to sit" You can think of that when your trees are not growing as fast as you want them to.

[DrTimPerkins]

When doing growth studies over the years shade trees will put on head or branch growth throughout the summer months but trunk caliper occurs the most late summer generally in late August and Sept depending on the genus of tree species. If takeing the caliper of a tree monthly at 12 inches from the ground in June/July and then monthly through fall when the tree goes dormant you will see the amazing amount of growth in caliper put on late in the season.

In most forest-grown northern hardwood trees, this is not the typical pattern that is observed. Basal (stem) growth begins in the spring before leaf-out (about the same time or a little after root growth), and occurs most strongly in early-mid summer, then tapers off gradually over the mid-late summer, at which point it becomes highly dependant upon soil moisture (and light). Trees, especially ring-porous trees (but also diffuse-porous trees), need the have at least some wood vessels in place and ready to supply water to the foliage immediately upon flush. The wood put on at this time (early-season wood) typically has large vessels. Later in the season, wood growth slows, and the vessels get smaller (in many species...not as much in maples) and eventually stops, although sequestration of carbohydrates (typically as starch) can continue until leaf-drop. Unlike animals however, the trees don't get "fatter" in the fall as they store the carbohydrates for winter. The concentration of carbohydrates increases, but the volume wood doesn't increase greatly at this time. Similarly, branch growth has also stopped by this point, as it is necessary for the tree cells to "harden" in preparation for winter. The boundary between late-season growth (small cells) and the following season early-growth (large cells) is what we perceive as a ring.

[philkasza]

So shall we plant them in the fall or spring here in West Central Michigan. We are only about 5 miles from Lake Michigan so our cold temps are usually above 0 degrees and summer temps are in the 80's. The Lake makes our climate mild on the cold and hot end. Some years we get up to 150 in. of snow. So do we plant this fall or next spring.

Sam

[DrTimPerkins]

So shall we plant them in the fall or spring here in West Central Michigan.
Sam

Either, but typically fall gives better results.

[Michael Greer]

Here in northern New York, we generally plant in the spring...as early as possible, before the leaves come out. Whenever you plant, it's important to commit to watering...every day, for the first summer. After that nature will take over.

[Revi]

I have planted in the spring, but then you have to water if it isn't a wet summer. We planted some at our sugarhouse, and at the school. We planted some large Autumn Blaze hybrid maples at a park. They are hardier and you have an instant tree.