help and advice

[maple36]

the parcel i recently purchased when i bought this had a house three building all usable and 99 acres of land with a 70 acre 3000 taps sugar bush and( 30 acre 560 taps on adjoining property all set up with vacum that was ran as one. but owner passed and now son has ownership of all parcels and kept the 560 taps 30 acre seperate from the sale. but wishes for me to lease the 560 taps. the nephew who previously ran the bush for the uncle leased it last year from his cousin after the uncle passed. my sugar bush has a sugarhouse that has a 6x16 leader evaporator all set up with pans and steamaway. owners son told me there was a small leak in the flue it was all set up with vacum and three pumps releasers and gathering stations with three 1000 galloon tanks and two 1200 gallon holding tanks in the sugar house. which was right. he never fixed the leak in the flue and ran it last year with the leak. but said it is fixable also the one pump(whick was going i guess the year prior but didnt) that ran half the main bush blew up and he used a pump he purchased and now runs two thirds of the bush off of this pump and was only averaging 17 inches. so now the bush is set up for two pumps but the big pump isnt staying. so would i be better off setting up for on big pump or two but i still have a matter of low vacum.. the small pump was also low about same 17 inches or little less for the other third of bush. im not sure where to start but i am going to need some money to start up for tractor,fuel 1000 gal tANK TO FILL a vac pump and tubing and fittings and mainline im sure. i have canner new and filterpress all new. i am obvious short on cash since i recently purchased the house and property. would a small loan be wise is the enough profit to pay the loan and help with taxes and put in sugar bush. i colud also thi the bush some since it hasnt been done in over forty five years and is pretty crowded. any suggestions would be helpful since i am new and not sure where to start. thanks in advance

[spud]

How much mainline and tubing work needs to be done? You need to take it one step at a time. First the woods needs to be set up a ready to go. Second you need a real vac pump that will give you 28+ vac. I would craigslist all the used pumps you have and put it toward a new one. A five HP two stage pump with 60 CFMs is what you need. This will cost $5000 or so. If all your sap runs into one releaser you might want to buy a new double releaser for $1100. I would buy all new CV2 spouts for your woods from Leader (order early). Now your ready to get 3000-5000 gallons on a good run as long as your lateral lines are short. Without an RO I would not boil any sap on your rig. Your rig may boil 500 GPH but if your sap is only testing at 1.8 on average then you are only going to draw off 10-12 gallons per hour. Bulk price for 12 gallons is around $360.00 dollars. So $360.00 is what you will make per hour on syrup but your rig burns 25+ gallons of fuel per hour. If you subtract fuel and filter aid that will eat up $125.00 dollars leaving you with just $235.00 per hour. Now you are down to just $19.50 for a gallon of syrup and a lot of work to get that. You might want to sell your sap for a few years until you can afford an RO. The other option is TD Bank offers a home equity line of credit loan. My friend got one for $40,000 and his payments are just $139.00 per month (interest only). Just don't tell the bank you need the money for sugaring. Tell them you need it for home improvements because it sounds better. Don't sell the big rig because once you have 5000+ taps you will be glad you have it.

Spud

[philkasza]

i like hearing of others getting in the maple industry. My 2 cents is this; your woods is your money, that was what i was told when setting up our bush and now i believe that with all my heart. The second thing is like spud said, Your RO is an expensive piece of equipment but it is probably about your biggest money maker dollar for dollar AFTER YOU HAVE LOTS OF SAP.

just remember that the sap comes from God, we can have all the technical equipment but with out God the maple industry would not even exist!

Sam

[spud]

Amen Brother- One thing I might add to what I said before is you might want to set up all 5000+ taps before you think about boiling. Of corse this all depends on if someone in your area is willing to buy your sap. Another option as crazy as it may sound is buy a used 6x16 wood fired arch (they sell cheap) If your back can handle the work I am sure you have plenty of firewood on your property. This would save you from buying oil for a year or two while you are making money. I wish you the best.

Spud

[AdirondackSap]

Sorry if im being nosey where in NY are you located?

[maple36]

near lowville ny

[Ranger93]

Maple 36,

I just sent you a text regarding some financing options locally. Spud is correct, the oil is going to be the biggest hurdle to get started however if you can produce 1000 gallons of syrup a year at even $16 or $18/gallon ($16,0000-$18,0000) thats a hell of a good start towards the mortgage taxes, tractor, etc. Just apply your $$$ where it makes the most sense for your operation. Firing with wood is alot of work. To make a 1000 gal of syrup you better have 60 cord of good seasoned wood on hand and that would be tough to accomplish before the good drying season ends. That is also no small job, even if you hire a few good working teenagers.

I started with vacuum at 15-17 with the old dairy equipment and I boil on a 6"16' wood fired evaporater with close to 3000 taps. The first year we made a whole 300 gals of syrup on 20 year old tubing that was so brittle that you could barely touch it. We now have installed over 35,000' of new tubing and are looking at getting new vacuum 27"+ at a cost of $5k-$6k. and this is 5 years in to ownign the property.

My advice is run what you have for a year, spend what you need to get your basic needs met (tractor, gathering tank etc.). Then fill your oil tank and go to making syrup. You will very quickly find out what needs attention first. If your tubing is not in good shape there is little snese in updating your vacuum. You wont know until you make the necessary repairs or replacement if you are going wet/dry with one pump or mulpitple pumps.

If you run it for a season you will know if you like it and if you want to stay with it. If you do like it, then you can start the process of becoming more efficient, better vacuum, reverse osmosis, and whatever comes along. Just be careful and make the decisions that work for you. If you try to buy each newly developed and innovative peice of equipment right off the get go, you will burn yourself out and your bank account along with it. Just a few suggestions from a neighbor.

Ranger93

[AdirondackSap]

Oh nice i know where that is Lewis county Amish country. I work for maplewood ice and im always out there delivering ice.