June Journal

[DrTimPerkins]

Amazing....I finally get to start a monthly journal.

Rerouting some lines here, fixing some ditches, planning some new research for next year.

[220 maple]

Don't forget the US Maple crop report will be posted on line sometime in the next 5 to 10 days, should be quite revealing. From what I've heard Wisconsins numbers will be unbelieveably low, the rest of the maple reporting states not so bad.

Mark 220 Maple

[maple flats]

Today is the first day for a very long list of things to do. I just got my excavator running yesterday for the first time since Nov. It had a starting issue, seemed to just need the contact to the selonoid cleaned up, could have been much worse. Now I need to get going building my addition, bumping the west wall out 10' and then digging a cellar off the north end of that for a cellar to store syrup and add storage above. The addition will mostly be for processing after the evaporator.
Also adding 3800' more 1" mainlines in my newer bush along with about 5-600' of 3/4". These should give me somewhere between 5-600 more taps by quick calculation (rough estimate). I've also got to pick up my new pans in Quebec at Thor. Will do that late June or early July.
Must saw the lumber for the addition, except the PT posts. All this along with tending my 4.5 acres blueberries and about 1.5 acres of other fruits and veggies.
Dave

[Gary R]

I made a mobile cart for our new 7" filter press. That things just too heavy to carry around (especially hot!). I need to install the cables for lifting the hood. Pulleys and lifting bars are in. I've got my second steam stack in. I just need to finish the flapper cap. I changed the swing on a sugar house door and the wife re-stained the porch floor. Thinking about adding a second blower in order to get the AOF working better. We also dug and replanted 27 sugar maples from the family farm into our front yard. If I live long enough maybe I'll be able to tap them. But first it's off to camp for some fishing!

[sjdoyon]

Ran (22) 1" mainlines in May, rerouted one line to increase the pitch and finished up the firewood for 2014 season. Now spending weekends in June running tubing and adding drop lines. Should be done by the end of July. Hopefully will end up adding another 1,800-2,000 taps to the operation.

[Sunday Rock Maple]

Ordered a section of replacement stack (22" round to fit a King) for the evaporator and 2,000' of 1" along with 2,500 CV's. Haven't heard any more about the 1 piece CV's so I'm assuming they are not generally avialable for this year. No work in the bush yet though, we are planting sweet corn and laying mulch for the pumpkins and squash.

[wiam]

I have seen one at an open house. I was told they would be available by spring. They were not sure on price but sounded like $.10 more than CV's.

[PATheron]

Been working on my furthest sugarbush since season ended. Snuck some new tubing in when I sold some syrup and swapped some equipment for some mainline and also had some mainline from other stuff and installing it all in this furthest bush. Still working on it but have most of the work done now for about 500 new taps. Had to move the releaser further down the hill to catch everything. Had to build a long wet dry line to pick up the existing 900 I had there first before I could do any of the new taps.Anyway its coming out good. Steep hill with good pitch. Some dandy nice trees too. Im thinking if I keep at it I can scrounge enough stuff to add 1000 new taps totall this year maybe. Want to hook the trees up but trying to pay down maple debt so have to be conservative. Anyway having fun. Once I run out of materials going to just walk around and finetune stuff. Bought a small liquid ring pump and going to use that to turn on small sections at a time before season and fix leaks. Want to have everything real tight long before season so I dont miss much sap once things start running. Having fun in the woods. Theron

[sapman]

I heard $.39 for the new CVs. Hope that's right. Managed to scrounge one by accident at the open house. Didn't realize they weren't giving them out in general! I'm pretty excited about the 1-piece design.

[Maplewalnut]

Tim- can you post a picture? What do you mean by one piece? Tap and Cv married?

[Tmeeeh]

I've never seen the new cv. It was described to me by someone at Leader as a hard clear replaceable spout. They are designed to be attached to your dropline. No stubby spout. They have to be removed from the dropline and replaced with a new one for the next season. Probably have to cut them off.

[RunInCircles]

I've got some work ahead in order to get to my sugarhouse. If you haven't heard, my town of Sullivan was hit badly by a thunderstorm that caused major flooding and washout damage to roads, including that through the woods to my sugarbush. I have a Gator to get there, but it will still take some work.

I constructed a stand to hold the Spinning Jenny I bought from tractor supply...it sits on the back of the Gator so I (hopefully) can just drive the rig to wherever I want to start unspooling my 12.5 ga wire and start walking. I've mapped out the route using a GPS and some yarn. Any other strategies for determining the best route before actually stringing up the heavy wire?

[wiam]

One piece looks like clear 90* throw away with check valve built into end that goes in tree. Same single ridge on tubing end.

[DrTimPerkins]

One piece looks like clear 90* throw away with check valve built into end that goes in tree. Same single ridge on tubing end.

This is a photo of the prototype in testing at UVM PMRC during the spring of 2012. There will be some slight modifications made based upon feedback from us and other testers before it goes on sale. It is anticipated they will be available in limited quantities starting in the fall of 2012.

This spout is "1-piece" and thus will not require a stubby. It is made of clear polycarbonate (by popular request). The ball is located in the nose-end of the spout, so there is NO way the ball can enter the tubing line and far less chance of breakage.

Far as I know, both the original and the new version will be sold.

5790

[LittleEnnis]

Hey Dr Tim.

Any chance there will be a clear polycarbonate stubbie checkvalve as well? I like the clear polycarbonate, but hate cutting off taps every year.

Yeah, my big brother says I'm opinionated too :)

[DrTimPerkins]

Any chance there will be a clear polycarbonate stubbie checkvalve as well?

I have no idea. I'm not involved in any way in the business decision-making process at Leader (or any other equipment manufacturer). I would imagine that if asked by enough people, they would consider it....but I really don't know. Lots of things have to be factored in for business decisions like this, and I can't even begin to imagine what those all would be and how it might turn out.

Polycarbonate is (apparently) a bit more difficult to mold....I believe it requires higher temperatures and pressures and thus longer cycle times, which means fewer cycles (parts made) per hour, which directly impacts the cost equation (manufacturing cost per part goes up). This is a key factor especially when you have fine detail and don't want any imperfections (flash) as you fairly commonly see on some spouts. That is one reason the CV adapter is more expensive, the cycle time is slower than a normal spout....because it is a more precision-made part than most typical spouts. If it weren't, it just wouldn't function properly. In addition, for the detail needed in the CV, the molds themselves have to be polished to a much higher degree to start with....again, adding to the cost. So the same is likely to be true of the CV2 (my name for it...not sure what Leader calls it).

[adk1]

Havent done a thing maple in 2 months other than selling some syrup

[tuckermtn]

question on the "one piece" check valve spout. The one I saw a few months back actually had the ball held in the spout with a second piece. Looked like the main part of spout was one piece, then they put the ball in, and finally a second tip was added to keep the ball in the spout. Was that a prototype or the one being produced?

[spud]

[QUOTE=DrTimPerkins;191018]This is a photo of the prototype in testing at UVM PMRC during the spring of 2012. There will be some slight modifications made based upon feedback from us and other testers before it goes on sale. It is anticipated they will be available in limited quantities starting in the fall of 2012.

This spout is "1-piece" and thus will not require a stubby. It is made of clear polycarbonate (by popular request). The ball is located in the nose-end of the spout, so there is NO way the ball can enter the tubing line and far less chance of breakage.

Dr Tim,

The new CV2 looks like a winner to me. What is the chances of me getting 5000 for next season? Should I be putting my name on a list now? I would hate to see the big operations buying them up and not giving the little guy's like myself the chance to buy some. What type of production per tap could I expect from using the new CV2 on two year old pipeline verses just using a new clear smart spout for a second year? Without the use of a stubby this makes me think there would be less vac leaks as well.

Spud

[DrTimPerkins]

question on the "one piece" check valve spout. The one I saw a few months back actually had the ball held in the spout with a second piece. Looked like the main part of spout was one piece, then they put the ball in, and finally a second tip was added to keep the ball in the spout. Was that a prototype or the one being produced?

Correct. The new CV2 one-piece is actually made of 3 pieces: spout body, tip, and ball.

All the spouts tested this year were prototypes. There are some changes being made in the production model. None of them are major, just a few tweaks to improve usability.

[DrTimPerkins]

What is the chances of me getting 5000 for next season? Should I be putting my name on a list now? I would hate to see the big operations buying them up and not giving the little guy's like myself the chance to buy some. What type of production per tap could I expect from using the new CV2 on two year old pipeline verses just using a new clear smart spout for a second year? Without the use of a stubby this makes me think there would be less vac leaks as well.

No idea on the availability (again, I'm not involved or privy to Leader's business plans or operation). We're hoping we're able to get some too. ;^)

We'll be presenting our results on the CV2 at meetings this year. In general, increases are about the same or larger (probably depends on the type of season) than the original version. The expected gain depends upon a lot of factors. We did test them against other clear spouts this year with good results.

[Amber Gold]

I'm looking forward to using these. I've never like having to use a stubby w/ reducer. They tend to separate during the season and it's just one more piece to buy. I'll probably cut all my stubbies off and start using these moving forward. Why are they built like CDL's tomahawk instead of a straight seasonal?

Not much going on here maple related. Just have been selling product which is moving well. We've actually almost sold out of this season's production and it's only June. I haven't checked, but I think we're ahead of last year in terms of sales. Planning on expenses for next season, currently not too high, but will if we expand into a new woods. We're also trying to work something out with two schools: one to expand their existing maple program and the other will be bringing the program back in. We'll see how it goes. Current plans are to expand the vac. woods another 150 taps (~800 total) and expand the bucket operation...shooting for 1200 total w/out the schools, more if they do.

[DrTimPerkins]

Why are they built like CDL's tomahawk instead of a straight seasonal?.

Simple...so they can be reseated if they frost heave.

[Amber Gold]

Lapierre carries a driver so that you can reseat them while the tubing's still on. I figured a straight spout would be easier/cheaper to cast.

[red maples]

I have heard good things about the CDL smart spout. how has that compaired to the CV/CV2 in the testing? they seem to be much less expensive close to 1/2 the price last time I checked. just curious...but looking forward to the 1 piece with no stubby but at the same time you still have to worry about getting ring line plugs to make sure everything is buttoned up tight, right? All the Tee's I have are leader t's for the stubby!!!

Nothing going on maple here either. a few sales but we have had some stuff stored in the mud room and the farm stand is currently closed(since I got ripped off last year) so sales have been a little slow in general. but I am gonna re-open my farm stand in the next few days and just put out pints with a note for larger containers to come up to the house. No honey yet should have some in a few weeks granted theres still some good nectar flows.

Been working like crazy on chicken coupes and little odds and ends projects. after all the chicken stuff is done then and I get all the wood finished... I have a bunch of trees down in the woods that I cut down last month but haven't done anything with them yet. I have all my neighbors contributing their unwanted pine to my maple pile all chunked up and everything all I have to do is split it so nice I guess I will have share a little syrup!!! pretty cool though the pile has doubled and I haven't add a piece to it!!!

then once all thats done then I can start on my maple stuff!!! sugarhouse addition, adding air to the arch, moving the arch a bit to center things out hopefully add a cement pad under it. re-brick it with split bricks to open things up a bit. So much to do!!!

alrighty back to work!!!! Guess I should update my signature...less than 9 months togo!!!

[ennismaple]

IMO - We'll stick with the CV and stubby. We've used 900 clear polycarbonate spouts in one of our woods the past 2 seasons with good reasults. However, for the amount of labour involved to cut off the old one and install a new one I can spend a lot of time making other improvements in the woods. I don't mind installing spouts - once!

Thanks for the updates Dr Tim.

[tuckermtn]

I am also going to try the polycarbonate inserts this year instead of the CV on some of my vac taps.

[Super Sapper]

Well, I guess I can add to this. I have framed in my 2 X 6 evaportor this spring. I just washed 33 3 to 5 gallons bakery pails that I picked up this week. I also just picked up 13 - 2' X 4' sheets of 2 inch fiberex insulation I found on Craigs List for $50. I have about 1 cord of pallet wood cut and stacked and have some boxelder wood to pick up when the hay is cut at my boss's place.

[Dennis H.]

why not use the clear poly spouts the 1st year when the tubing is nice and new and then decide to use either the stuby and CV or the new clear CV2.

For what I have seen in some of those articles the cv's don't make a huge difference the 1st year of new tubing.

I would like to have know about the new CV2, I just bought enough stuff to do the woods at my dad's cabin and I will be using the stubby and cv combo.

I agree that it is a real pain to deal with the fact of how to seal up the system after the season. One companies T's will not work with another companies stubbies. If you are using those clear throw away spouts the 1st year, which T to use? Because the next year I will be running stubbies and will need the pin type T. See what I mean.
Now it does sound like the new CV2's can be removed without any tools or cutting, right? if that is the case then using the T's that have the cup thing for plugging tubing would work.

[GeneralStark]

IMO - We'll stick with the CV and stubby. We've used 900 clear polycarbonate spouts in one of our woods the past 2 seasons with good reasults. However, for the amount of labour involved to cut off the old one and install a new one I can spend a lot of time making other improvements in the woods. I don't mind installing spouts - once!

Thanks for the updates Dr Tim.

I don't understand what you mean here? All seasonal spouts need to be removed at the end of the season and then replaced in the spring, unless you leave them for the summer and then replace in the spring. Either way, you doing the same amount of work. I don't personally see how a CV on a stubby is less work than a clear seasonal spout. If you then consider the time and cost it takes to replace the stubbies that the squirrels chewed, it seems to me that the spouts without the stubby are much easier, cheaper and quicker.

Not trying to be a jerk here but just wondering what you mean. I'm also trying to wrap my head around why anyone would use a stubby in the first place.

I'm planning on just replacing drops every two years and using seasonal spouts. For my production, this seems to be the most cost effective spout/drop sanitation system. That said, a producer in my area with 15,000 taps does the same thing.

[ennismaple]

I don't understand what you mean here? All seasonal spouts need to be removed at the end of the season and then replaced in the spring, unless you leave them for the summer and then replace in the spring. Either way, you doing the same amount of work. I don't personally see how a CV on a stubby is less work than a clear seasonal spout. If you then consider the time and cost it takes to replace the stubbies that the squirrels chewed, it seems to me that the spouts without the stubby are much easier, cheaper and quicker.

Not trying to be a jerk here but just wondering what you mean. I'm also trying to wrap my head around why anyone would use a stubby in the first place.

I'm planning on just replacing drops every two years and using seasonal spouts. For my production, this seems to be the most cost effective spout/drop sanitation system. That said, a producer in my area with 15,000 taps does the same thing.

We get very little squirrel damage so that's not an issue.

Because we vacuum wash we leave the old CV's on the stubby until we tap the following year. When the new taphole is drilled you remove the old CV/stubby combo from the cup tee, twist the old CV off as you walk away from the tree and then the hammer guy inserts the new CV in the taphole, seats it and twists in the stubby. The entire process takes maybe 20 seconds per tap. It's only marginally slower than tapping with the "health" spiles that got used year after year.

With the 90-degree seasonal spouts the old spout has to be cut off and a new spout inserted into the dropline. We've found inserting the seasonal 90-degree spout is difficult, slow and hurts the hands unless we use the 1-handed tubing tool - especially doing 900 of them. It also takes 20-30 seconds but is a separate process from tapping - often done weeks in advance of tapping so this is an extra trip around all the lines in the woods. The video on Lapierre's YouTube channel is more or less what we do, except we didn't bother buying their special tool. This process doubles the total amount of time it takes to tap compared to using CV's and stubbies so when you're trying to get almost 4,000 taps drilled in less than 2 days the extra hours spent cutting off and replacing seasonal spouts can be better spent checking for leaks.

We've done 2 years of experimenting with the seasonal spouts and have nothing bad to say about them, but we won't be using them any more.

[rchase]

why not use the clear poly spouts the 1st year when the tubing is nice and new and then decide to use either the stuby and CV or the new clear CV2.

For what I have seen in some of those articles the cv's don't make a huge difference the 1st year of new tubing.

I would like to have know about the new CV2, I just bought enough stuff to do the woods at my dad's cabin and I will be using the stubby and cv combo.

I agree that it is a real pain to deal with the fact of how to seal up the system after the season. One companies T's will not work with another companies stubbies. If you are using those clear throw away spouts the 1st year, which T to use? Because the next year I will be running stubbies and will need the pin type T. See what I mean.
Now it does sound like the new CV2's can be removed without any tools or cutting, right? if that is the case then using the T's that have the cup thing for plugging tubing would work. lapierre 3 stage tees will do tubing,stubbies.

[GeneralStark]

We get very little squirrel damage so that's not an issue.

Because we vacuum wash we leave the old CV's on the stubby until we tap the following year. When the new taphole is drilled you remove the old CV/stubby combo from the cup tee, twist the old CV off as you walk away from the tree and then the hammer guy inserts the new CV in the taphole, seats it and twists in the stubby. The entire process takes maybe 20 seconds per tap. It's only marginally slower than tapping with the "health" spiles that got used year after year.

With the 90-degree seasonal spouts the old spout has to be cut off and a new spout inserted into the dropline. We've found inserting the seasonal 90-degree spout is difficult, slow and hurts the hands unless we use the 1-handed tubing tool - especially doing 900 of them. It also takes 20-30 seconds but is a separate process from tapping - often done weeks in advance of tapping so this is an extra trip around all the lines in the woods. The video on Lapierre's YouTube channel is more or less what we do, except we didn't bother buying their special tool. This process doubles the total amount of time it takes to tap compared to using CV's and stubbies so when you're trying to get almost 4,000 taps drilled in less than 2 days the extra hours spent cutting off and replacing seasonal spouts can be better spent checking for leaks.

We've done 2 years of experimenting with the seasonal spouts and have nothing bad to say about them, but we won't be using them any more.

Ok got it, I think. But what do you mean by this?:

"We've found inserting the seasonal 90-degree spout is difficult, slow and hurts the hands unless we use the 1-handed tubing tool - especially doing 900 of them. It also takes 20-30 seconds but is a separate process from tapping - often done weeks in advance of tapping so this is an extra trip around all the lines in the woods."

By "inserting" I assume you mean connecting the drop to the spout? Are you saying that you put the spouts on the drops before you tap, then you go around and tap and drive the spouts into the taphole? Two separate trips? Is this because the T's you are using in the woods only have a plug for a 5/16" spout and not a drop?

I find tapping with a seasonal spout to be quite quick, but I do use a T that has a plug for 5/16" tubing. I drill, drive the tap, then connect the drop. IF the drop needs replacing (I have lots of squirrels), then that adds some time.

Once again, not trying to be a jerk.

[Dennis H.]

Did not know about the Lapierre T's would do both.
Thanks for that bit of info.
I like the fittings from Lapierre but I use the CV's from Leader.

What's the deal with everyone selling the CV's now? I thought Leader was the lone company able to sell them.
Did everyone realize that they were missing out on sales by not getting on board with the CV's?

[waysidemaple]

Been working pretty hard in the woods since the end of season. So far I've managed to get up 5000 feet of 3/4 and 5000 feet of 1 inch and 7 rolls of 5/16. Got permission to tap both of my nieghbors properties so I'm pretty confident that Ill be able to hit 3000 taps for this coming season all coming to one tank. Big problem this year is the electric service to the house. Not quite big enought to handle all the maple equipment and the house and barns. Prolly going to pay for a bigger transformer but who knows only time will tell. Going to start mowing hay tomorrow after work so my woods work will be put on hold until thats done.

Scott

[red maples]

why not use the clear poly spouts the 1st year when the tubing is nice and new and then decide to use either the stuby and CV or the new clear CV2.

For what I have seen in some of those articles the cv's don't make a huge difference the 1st year of new tubing.

I would like to have know about the new CV2, I just bought enough stuff to do the woods at my dad's cabin and I will be using the stubby and cv combo.

I agree that it is a real pain to deal with the fact of how to seal up the system after the season. One companies T's will not work with another companies stubbies. If you are using those clear throw away spouts the 1st year, which T to use? Because the next year I will be running stubbies and will need the pin type T. See what I mean.
Now it does sound like the new CV2's can be removed without any tools or cutting, right? if that is the case then using the T's that have the cup thing for plugging tubing would work.

The ideal thing to do would be to set up yoru drops with stubbies and use straight adapters if you don;t want to go with the CV's right away and yes new tubing no bacteria/microbes yet so no tap infection. by doiung this then it will just save you a step the following season so you'll be all set to switch over to the CV's. besides you can sit in your living room making drops. wife permitted;)

The more I have been thinking about the more I have to agree with Ennismaple...drilling tapping and just adding on the adapter will be alot less time consuming then cutting and attaching new stuff every season I am just a smaller producer but as I grow its just me so the easier and quicker for me the better!!! and adapters are quicker and easier. I have yet to have a tap come apart the last 2 years since switching to the CV's .

[ennismaple]

Ok got it, I think. But what do you mean by this?:

"We've found inserting the seasonal 90-degree spout is difficult, slow and hurts the hands unless we use the 1-handed tubing tool - especially doing 900 of them. It also takes 20-30 seconds but is a separate process from tapping - often done weeks in advance of tapping so this is an extra trip around all the lines in the woods."

By "inserting" I assume you mean connecting the drop to the spout? Are you saying that you put the spouts on the drops before you tap, then you go around and tap and drive the spouts into the taphole? Two separate trips? Is this because the T's you are using in the woods only have a plug for a 5/16" spout and not a drop?

I find tapping with a seasonal spout to be quite quick, but I do use a T that has a plug for 5/16" tubing. I drill, drive the tap, then connect the drop. IF the drop needs replacing (I have lots of squirrels), then that adds some time.

Once again, not trying to be a jerk.

Generalstark,

We use tee cups that accept a 5/16" spout and not tee "pins" that either plug into a stubby or a dropline. By doing it this way the old CV is loose enough on the stubby by the following spring to twist off with minimal finger pressure. We haven't had any CV's and stubbies separate during the season but some do need to be lightly tapped in on occassion depending on how gentle the guy with the hammer is seating the stubby.

We should also take into account the scale of our respective operations. If you take 15 seconds more per tap that means an extra hour for you to tap all your vacuum tubing. If we take an extra 15 seconds per tap it would take us almost 16 hours more to get all our taps in! We count on a 2-person tapping crew to put in between 900 and 1000 taps per day and we can't afford the extra time (either before or during tapping) to cut off old spouts and put a new seasonal spout on the dropline. We gave the seasonal spouts an honest 2-year trial in 25% of our woods but we won't use them any more.

The one things that would make CV's perfect for our use is if they were clear polycarbonate like the seasonal spouts. We really liked how the clear polycabonate spouts grip the tree and seldom need to be re-seated. Plus, it is easier to see micro-leaks at the taphole.

To each his own - opinions are like belly-buttons. Cheers!

[GeneralStark]

Generalstark,

We use tee cups that accept a 5/16" spout and not tee "pins" that either plug into a stubby or a dropline. By doing it this way the old CV is loose enough on the stubby by the following spring to twist off with minimal finger pressure. We haven't had any CV's and stubbies separate during the season but some do need to be lightly tapped in on occassion depending on how gentle the guy with the hammer is seating the stubby.

We should also take into account the scale of our respective operations. If you take 15 seconds more per tap that means an extra hour for you to tap all your vacuum tubing. If we take an extra 15 seconds per tap it would take us almost 16 hours more to get all our taps in! We count on a 2-person tapping crew to put in between 900 and 1000 taps per day and we can't afford the extra time (either before or during tapping) to cut off old spouts and put a new seasonal spout on the dropline. We gave the seasonal spouts an honest 2-year trial in 25% of our woods but we won't use them any more.

The one things that would make CV's perfect for our use is if they were clear polycarbonate like the seasonal spouts. We really liked how the clear polycabonate spouts grip the tree and seldom need to be re-seated. Plus, it is easier to see micro-leaks at the taphole.

To each his own - opinions are like belly-buttons. Cheers!

I hear ya! I'm not trying to suggest the way you do it is wrong or that your choice of using CVs is a bad one. Just trying to understand how others do things. And you are correct that the scale of an operation does affect decisions that are made on choice of equipment and procedure.

It is interesting to me that several large producers in this area that I know have tried CVs, but are definitely favoring clear seasonal spouts. One reason is that stubbys are one more leak potential and they seem to need to be reseated during the season, which for a large operation can be problematic. Another is cost and simplicity. I assume this is one reason why the new CV is coming out this season.

All we can do here is discuss opinions, and they are all valuable. One of my goals in my operation, which is growing, is to maintain simplicity and minimal numbers of fittings and parts in the woods. The stubby seems to me to be an unnecessary piece of the equation, and the fewer things to leave in the woods for the rodents to chew the better. Also, it seems to me that replacing drops every two years and using a clear seasonal spout is much cheaper than using CVs, and according to the studies may yield just as much sap in the long run.

We all do things differently, but my way will always be right...in my opinion.:)

[archerybs]

I just snagged a 5hp Busch vacuum pump off ebay. I'm hoping it lives up to the high recomendations from those who own them.

[Paddymountain]

Been working on a ceiling in the sugarshack . White pine boards/ship lapped with 3/4 closed cell insulation under it.