dry line sizing for 1500 taps, self priming liquid ring

[Jeremy Steeves]

I am going to transfer vacuum about 1700 ft to about 1500 taps, probably about 26" Hg. What should I use?
I have one install that I run about the same size and distance, I use two 1 1/2 lines for vac, a 1 ' pump line.
I was thinking with this one the same.

I have a variety of pumps in service, most of my liquid rings I run on oil systems I made. I have some 10 hp nash cl202's that run on water as service fluid direct from streams, they pull the service liquid well. During the hot weather i tried to convert a Sihi 3408 5 hp from oil to water from a steam and it did not like itto pull liquid.
So my question: I got a 2 ac. 15 feet deep pond at the bottom of a 1000 tap sugarwoods- anyone recommend a nice self priming high CFM good vacuum pump in the 26" area in a single stage? I am going to use at least 5 hp. I like lots of vacuum. I guess I could go 2 stage too. I do not like to take the 2 stage ones apart much though.

[maple flats]

For that distance I would use 1.5" dry but the wet could be 1.25". My system runs 1400' of wet/dry 1.5/1.25 and I get full vac at the end, however I only had 17" at the pump this year. Leader designed it to run 27" so I can run on a better vac pump in a year or two.
I can't speak from experience but I like the literature and performance charts for the Busch Rotary claw pumps, and they run dry.

[Sunday Rock Maple]

Jeremy,

Not to steal your thread, but I go a similar distance for the same # of taps on one 1 1/2" vacuum line and a 1" pump back line. Did you start out with one and then go to two vacuum lines for better performance or started with two?. I'm wondering if a second line would help in my situation. Sorry not much help on liquid rings (we have a flood as we didn't have a good water source).

Thanks,

Brian

[GeneralStark]

I am going to transfer vacuum about 1700 ft to about 1500 taps, probably about 26" Hg. What should I use?
I have one install that I run about the same size and distance, I use two 1 1/2 lines for vac, a 1 ' pump line.
I was thinking with this one the same.

I have a variety of pumps in service, most of my liquid rings I run on oil systems I made. I have some 10 hp nash cl202's that run on water as service fluid direct from streams, they pull the service liquid well. During the hot weather i tried to convert a Sihi 3408 5 hp from oil to water from a steam and it did not like itto pull liquid.
So my question: I got a 2 ac. 15 feet deep pond at the bottom of a 1000 tap sugarwoods- anyone recommend a nice self priming high CFM good vacuum pump in the 26" area in a single stage? I am going to use at least 5 hp. I like lots of vacuum. I guess I could go 2 stage too. I do not like to take the 2 stage ones apart much though.

I have some experience with two different Travaini liquid ring pumps in which we use spring water for the service liquid. Neither of these will "pull" the cooling water and instead need pressurized water no greater than 5psi. We use a head tank above the pumps into which the spring water flows (by gravity at 40psi) and then into the pumps. We can cool the service fluid by controlling the flow of spring water into the head tank.

I wouldn't think that using the pump to "pull" the service fluid would be the best choice but to each their own. Seems like that cooling water is a pretty critical part of the equation.

[Jeremy Steeves]

OK
I have 4 spare 3 hp 2 stage 3 ph trav pumps I picked up, I think I would use them on oil, they were oil seals. I use one now on oil and it runs nice on high vac. on my home built oil system. The little vacs are good that way- low CFMs makes for less oil vaporization. I might use the three in this application- 2 in service, 1 spare.

I am looking for a self primer for water since I have the pond. thanks for the input!
J

[Amber Gold]

I have an A10 Atlantic Fluidics LR pump, and pull water from the pond 20' from the pump. I have a stock tank the LR pump sits on. I have a line coming out of the tank drain, with the feed from the pond teeing into it, this all tees into the vac. line coming from the woods, and then it enters the pump intake. There are valves on both lines to regulate the water flow. The pump discharges back into the stock tank. The stock tank is there so there's always a water source for the pump if the pond line freezes.

It works well and the pump is pulling water from the tank and the pond. The pump does need to be primed first. I know of another producer with his pump sitting above a groundwater well. The pump lifts the sap 10-15' feet I think, then dumps the water back into the well.

IMO. Two pumps are way too much pump for the size woods you have...one pump is more than enough. I'm comfortably running my 620 tap woods on a 1.5hp, 15 cfm pump and will be expanding it to 800 taps for next season. If running a pump that big, I'd put a vac. transducer on it, so it'll ramp down when the system's tight...save on electricity and when it's running full speed, you'll know there's leaks in the woods.

[Jeff E]

Seems like people are talking about 2 different things regarding tubing size.
THere is discussion of wet/dry lines, and discussion of vacuum and pump lines.

Wet/Dry lines, as I understand it, are lines that come from your releaser into the sugarbush. The are joined by a manifold where a mainline takes off to go to the laterals/trees. For 1500 taps, I would go with a 1.5" dry line, and 1" wet line. If you have a minimal slope, maybe go to a bigger wet line as this can fill with that many taps and slow sap motion.

Vacuum line would be a line from the vacuum pump to the releaser. for a run of 1700' to a releaser with 1500 taps, again, a 1.5" line would work great.
Pump line would be from the releaser drop tank to whereever you are moving the sap to.

I have a 1.5" vac line that runs 1400' to a releaser with 1600 taps. Pump line from there back to the sugar house is a 1" line. These work great.
My biggest W/D line serves about 900 taps, and is a 1"D/1"W set up. Works great.
I run about 24" of vac.