Poor mans RO

[royalmaple]

Is there anyway to make / buy a cheap RO unit for smaller operation?

Is there something specific to an RO for the maple industry vs. say one people use in homes for water treatment?

I would be interested in rigging up something even if it only reduced the sap by 50%.

[brookledge]

I don't know the price but Leader came out with the Hero model this year tha just hooks into your supply line to the evaporator. It isgeared to the small producer. I haven't heard of any other manufactuers that have one like the Hero.
Does anyone know the price?
Its to small for me but I'm just curious.
Keith

[royalmaple]

Has anyone tried using the home type ones you can buy from home depot for example?

And if you could use this, would you use the sap that comes through the unit? I know normally this would purify the water you drink, but would this take out the sugar in the sap, so you would want the "other" water normally discarded?

[brookledge]

I'm not sure how effective the membrane is in that unit but you are right that you would want to keep the sap(liquid) that would normally be discarded with the home unit. What makes me think that the membrane won't be effective is that if you are feeding it water with clorine or some other chemical that you are looking to remove there is really no volume being discarded. Whereas if you are trying to keep what is designed to be discarded not to sure. It may work but you will find that it takes for ever to run your sap through.
Try calling the manufactuer of the home depot model and ask if it would be feasable.
Keith

[Russell Lampron]

The RO machines that are sold for water purification don't have enough gallons per hour for sap production. I am not sure if the membranes in them are fine enough to stop the sugar molecules from passing through either.

Russ

[royalmaple]

Thanks guys, be curious to see what the hobby ro costs. Hopefully someone has the price to post.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

The Hero runs around $ 4400 I think. :)

[royalmaple]

Wow-

That is some hobby then, why not make it so in order to make syrup you have to spend so much money that you will never live long enough to break even.

Thanks for the price Brandon.

[maple flats]

My dealer gave me the same price ball park and it is gravity flow. Seems like a unit with a pump would be much more uniform in output, as the membrane gets used it would flow less and less.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I guess head pressure would be the key. I am wondering how it works. It says 50 gph and it can be used inline for a 3x8?? I am wondering if it will put out say up to 100 gph but the slower the evaporator needs sap, the higher the sugar content. :?

[220 maple]

I have friend with a homemade RO of sorts, I believe he bought a RO that was Navy surplus, and added the Maple sap membranes. I never asked him how good it worked. He has used it every season that I have known him.

mark 220 maple

[Russell Lampron]

Brandon,

50gph means that it will process 50 gallons of sap in an hour. The actual amount of concentrate it will produce is 1/4 of that or about 12 gallons. That would mean that you would have to process all of your sap before you started to boil if your evaporator boiled more than 12gph. As an example my 150gph RO produces just about the same 35gph as my evaporator boils off.

Russ

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Russ,

I know that is what it normally means but it says you can use it inline with up to a 3x8 evaporator. 8O

[sapman]

I was at Bascom's last year when Yvonne Pellerin was explaining the machine. I can't remember the exact specifics, but he made it sound like you could use the machine totally inline, and that it self-adjusts to what the feed of the evaproator needs. It doesn't all make sense now, as it's been almost a year. But the bottom line seemed to be that it will speed things up by the 50gph, no matter the evaporator size.

I'll have to see if I can get the explanation again this year. But one could give the guys at Leader a call and get it, too.

Tim

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

That is kinda how the info I have seen it is also. :?

[Uncle Tucker]

i belive that the lower evaperation rate, the more concentrate the sap is. So a 3x8 would benifit less than a half pint because the sap would recircluate more with a slower feed rate.

[802maple]

actually what it would speed up the process is by the actual amount of water taken away as Russ said that would be 38 gallons per hour. I have seen some producers that have to small of an R.O. for there evaporator just process concentrate directly in to your feed box and let raw sap come in like it usually does to make up the difference.

[Pete33Vt]

To me an inline system seems like it would work the best after the preheater and before the float box. Let the preheater get some of the water out then slam the rest out with the inline R.O
But I have never seen one of the units so not sure if it would work.

[Mike]

If your going to spend $4,400 on a small RO you might as well spend $8000 on a 600 gal an hr RO..Or even a 300 gal RO..I used mine for the first time, we put 1100 gals of sap thru the RO and the 3x10 evaporator ....That was at 6.5% sugar.....We hope to run around 8% once we get used to it....Best investment ive made for the sugar house....We've made 34 gals so far....

[Russell Lampron]

Now that I have read some of your replies I think I under the principal behind the Hero. It will concentrate to a certain level and you have to mix in raw sap to keep from out boiling it or you add the output from that to raw sap in your feed tank. It is not as efficient as an RO machine that can concentrate to 8% and the concentrate is all that you boil.

Russ

[brookledge]

I thought the hero would concentrate beter if the flow was slow and if you started drawing faster the concentrate would drop to keep up with the evaporator. I don't think you would have to add raw sap. If you draw too fast with the hero you would in a cense still have raw sap. that is why it is only good for small evaporators.
I've never seen one or sure how they work but that is how it was described to me
Keith

[John Burton]

brookledge you are correct as that is how it was explained to me by leader

[802maple]

You are probably right about not adding sap to the evaporator. I am not familar with this unit and if it is as being described I wouldn't want to get anymore more familar with it as for that kind of money you can find used standard 250 r.o.'s that will do a much better job.

[mapleman3]

So as a small producer... lets take me for example, I do 330+ taps, 1/3 are buckets taking 1-1.5 hours to collect, so I get started boiling anywhere from 6-7pm depending on sap run.

so I would have to collect.. then come home run the sap through the ro for another 2 hours before I can boil??? hows that work out so I only have to boil 3 hours instead of 5? but the time is about the same....I guess if I didn't have to gather and the ro turned on itself in the middle of the day and was ready for me when I got home from work that would be worth it.... but 4400 for it nope ... I'll wait

[John Burton]

no mapleman you dont have to wait the way rand gaudette explained it to me was you hook it up in line and boil as normal you would start out processing sap at say six percent then as your evaporator picks up the sugar percentage will gradually decrease. I would agree its alot of money and you may as well as get the real thing for a little more money. randy claims a guy in ny bought one last year and loves it but for me i can go one or two size larger in evaporator for just a whisker more and not have to add an insulated room and larger power to sugarhouse at this point i would say to any one with questions give leader the call and get the real skinny as they can tell you all about it

[John Burton]

theres one or two people who have clear water systems (home) set up in their signatures just currious to hear how they are working out with them come on guys give it up let the rest of know how they are woking out

[WF MASON]

I have a customer in Tuftenboro(spelled wrong) NH from Calf. he dragged back an RO he bought from the wine industry, a small one, he's going to put on the correct filter and use it next year.Said he paid $1200. used. I'm sure they are out there cheap.Its just finding them.

[Russell Lampron]

Jim,

With a real RO like mine, which would be a perfect size for you, you would be able to start the RO and as soon as you have enough concentrated sap in your feed tank to start running into your evaporator flip the switch and start boiling. My guess would be 10 minutes max from the time you start the RO until the time you are watching the temp at your draw off valve. You don't have to wait until all of your sap is concentrated.

Of course if you had other things to do to get ready to boil you would have plenty of time to get them done while the RO is filling your feed tank. If we can get together this spring or summer I would love to show you my set up and explain everything.

Russ

[treefinder]

i would wait and keep your eyes open for a used 150 gph r/o it would sell for about 2000-2500.00 . tell me about it / i know still enough thats why i don't have one yet. thank god your a smaller producer i would have to go with at least a 300 gph. i ask leader a couple of months ago a bout a 600 gph r/o and the price was 14,000.00 wow!!!!!!! kevin

[treefinder]

bascoms just put a used one forsale . mini elite 130 gph 3800.00 my buddy's have one and they love it . i think they paid 5500.00 for theres used.but i think ro syrup taste differant, or maybe its just me?they run about 1600 taps on a 2 1/2 x 8' with no problem.but when you go gather sap and you bring 500 gallons plan on 4hrs of waiting to run it through the ro.the wait sucks trust me but you would probably spend it in the sugar house boiling it anyways. the r/o's at walmart might work but they only do 100gal in like 24hrs you don't want that.

[hookhill]

Yes sir, they are pricey. I still think a guy could make one pretty cheap. The most expensive thing is the membranes which you really cant make yourself. Anyone out there tackle a homemade R/O yet?