sap ladder?

[SadSams]

Can i lift with the 6way star fittings more then once on a branch mainline to get back to the main (mainline). In other words, i've got an area that I want to tap but need to lift it about 6' into a branch mainline 3/4''.From there it goes about 500' to another star ladder, lifting 6' to a 1'' main and then back to the releaser. Will that second ladder work. Their will be about 25 taps on the lower ladder.

[maple flats]

Yes, as long as you have enough vacuum. Sap ladders use up vacuum, you must be oversized at the pump to work well.

[ennismaple]

We added 100 taps this year on a triple ladder - meaning 3x 7' to 8' lifts. We've got 20" Hg at the upper mainline and only 6" at the far end of the lower mainline but its still better than not tapping those trees!

[maple flats]

I think Steve Childs, Cornell Maple Specialist has a piece online that helps you know how much vacuum you lose for a specific type and lift sap ladder. Ennismaple, did you try installing a line to carry the vac across the ladder? 20 down to 6 might be the best you can do across 3 ladders of 7-8' each but try a jumper to test it. Do you introduce a little air to aid the climb? I don't and mine climb well, but then I don't have 3 on the same main.

[sapman]

Does a jumper on a typical ladder work? My understanding is you then have vacuum competing from two directions, unless you use one of the lifting mechanisms that isolates the jumper during a lift.

[tuckermtn]

I am under the same impression as sapman that to run a sap ladder, the sap and vacuum needs to have no other place to go.

[ennismaple]

I think Steve Childs, Cornell Maple Specialist has a piece online that helps you know how much vacuum you lose for a specific type and lift sap ladder. Ennismaple, did you try installing a line to carry the vac across the ladder? 20 down to 6 might be the best you can do across 3 ladders of 7-8' each but try a jumper to test it. Do you introduce a little air to aid the climb? I don't and mine climb well, but then I don't have 3 on the same main.

We didn't add any air but we may do something for next year. Sometimes the ladder seemed to get air locked and if you cracked the valve a hair it would start jumping again.

[mapleack]

As far as I know you cannot put a jumper passed a star ladder. The whole create a leak or not deal has been debated a ton. I believe it helps. I've got a 14' ladder with about 40 taps on it. The ladder is comprised of 6 pieces of 5/16. On heavy runs it would fill and vac in the tubing beyond the ladder would drop to about 12" before enough tree gas made the ladder work, then the vac would climb back to 18" + . This year I installed a 3/8" needle valve on 3' of tubing, on it's own saddle about 50' upstream from the ladder. I played with adjustment on heavy run days until the ladder worked steady. Observed vac stayed at 18" steady on lifted section while 21" or so at the releaser. I'll take the steady 18" over drops to 12" and take the intentional leak impacting cfm.

[spud]

I have about 100 taps just below one of my booster tanks. I was wondering if I could run 50 feet of one inch main and then sap ladder the whole 100 taps into it. So I guess what I am saying is there would be a 300 foot stretch of mainline that would end up 50 feet below my vacuum transfer tank. From there I would need the sap to go up a ladder about 10 feet or so before going into the booster tank. If this would work (and I think it would) how many stars should I use and can I get away with one ladder going the full 10 feet? Thanks

Spud

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Yes, you can ladder it and a single ladder will lift 10 feet. I would use at least 3 stars or go to a two pipe ladder. Performance will be a bit less than if the trees did not have to be lifted but you will have 100 additional taps you would not have had otherwise.

[spud]

Alright thanks for the help. I thought one time someone said to use one 6 way star per so many taps. With you saying 3 stars that would make it 33 taps per star. If I find myself having 150 taps should I just use 5 stars? Thanks

Spud

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Spud,
I have heard a recommendation that you need one 5/16 "up" line for every 10 taps meaning 60 taps per star. In talking to industry experts and from my own experience, I think the ladders work better with better vacuum transfer if your number of taps per star is closer to 25 or 30.

[spud]

Alright I guess I will go 3 stars per hundred. Thanks for the help.

Spud

[Randy Brutkoski]

To be safe i do 20 taps per 4 way star.