Is a hobby operation possible in the suburbs?

[mathprofdk]

I just started last year in my back yard, and I'm having a great time - even though this year pretty much sucked. My plan for now is to just expand in the neighborhood and use the custom natural gas evaporator a friend made for me.

Of course, I have a bit of an itch that needs to at least be investigated. Another friend of mine sees a huge potential for selling retail (we live in the Chicago suburbs - lots of farmer's markets and such). I'm interested in at least investigating it, since it would just be a hobby for me. I'm not leaving my FT job until I retire...in 30 years.

I'm stuck at the beginning, though. I can price out surgarhouses, ROs, evaporators, pans, etc, but I don't have any clue about the most important part - land with maple trees!. Anyone know if it's possible to find a good sugarbush in an area not typically known for maple trees? I'd be willing to drive a couple hours, so northern IL, southern WI, and maybe NW Indiana. If it is, how do you find property? I can't find any good way to search online. Most of the lots that are for sale are selling for 7 figures to developers. I don't even know where to look. Any tips on getting started if you don't live in an area where sugaring is common?

I'd also welcome any other tips about starting a small hobby operation. I have a couple of potential investors, and would likely implement in a few years after coming up with a solid business plan. I'm very cautious by nature, and I'm leaning toward just sticking with my backyard operation, but I have to at least investigate the possibility.

Thanks!
~DK

[mathprofdk]

**bump**

Any thoughts?

[SDdave]

most important part - land with maple trees!. Anyone know if it's possible to find a good sugarbush in an area not typically known for maple trees?

:lol::lol::lol: Welcome to my world. Yes it's possible. Just got to do some "scouting". First how many trees are you looking for? I know in the 'burbs there's trees, some have to be maple, some have to be owned by some nice people that would let you tap for qt. I think you need to answer the perverbal question "how many taps do I need for this venture." Then "scout".

Now for the selling part, every state is different. I have found out for me that the only feasible way of selling would be at a farmers market. Retail out of a shack is not even an option (>$$).

Hope this helps.

SDdave

[driske]

I guess the first thing I would do is check out your local ordinances in regard to setting up on a backyard scale.
My in-laws neighbor in Depere, WI ( Suburb of Green Bay) had a nice backyard operation tapping the Norway Maple in the block they lived on. Some of the trees were in the boulevards and some on private lots. "Buck" would pass along a small bottle of syrup in appreciation for the use of the trees, and every time he boiled it was a bit of a block party.

[heus]

Just make sure your stack has a spark arrestor or the suburbanites will go crazy.

[PerryW]

In most areas, it would be impossible to purchase land for the value of maple sap alone. Logging & Development would be needed to help offset the costs. Buying a large chunk and selling off a house lot or two is often a good option, but be careful of local subdivision regs.

My question is: DO you want to be a producer or a Maple Syrup Salesman? and How big do you want to go? I sell my average crop of 110 gallons all retail and I never advertise and never sell syrup at markets, fairs or flea markets.


If you want to stay small, 'll bet there are maple trees right close to home. Those roadside trees in the suburbs would run great as they have big crowns.

[SDdave]

Mathprofdk: on a side note I would love to see pics of your custom made evap.

SDdave

[maple flats]

You should try leasing he trees. First go scouting to locate a block of maples, preferably sugars. (You must train yourself the ID trees from afar). Then carry a qt of your prized golden nectar of the Gods and knock on some doors. Don't be pushy. Know what you are willing to pay and offer them "some extra income" to help pay their taxes. I currently pay $.75 per tap, but the range goes from maybe $.40 up to $1.00. Part of you price consideration should include ease of collection, method of collection and if using tubing can you leave it up year round. I personally would not use tubing in the traditional sense if it required annual removal, however some do. I have however seen many the use mini tubing systems into a container, (bbl etc.). I would also consider potential security issues, some kids now days would do things like Pee in a tank "jut for kicks" or introduce any number of other things. This seems to be more of an issue in non ag areas because the kids have "nothing to do" except vandalize. Try for a written lease, especially if installing tubing that will be left up. I use 5 yr leases renewable automatically at least 1 time unless I have not lived up to my lease requirements. For ideas see Vermont's standard Lease form available online. I used that and customized it to my needs.
Don't be discouraged with the rejections, many are rejected more that accepted however I have never been rejected. At one lease I had in the past I was reguired to use buckets in the yard, but I had tubing on a roadside line of trees away from the house. I finally dropped that because of time to collect and the very narrow road where the tank had to be, as I got a much larger lease. My second large lease came from the landowner stopping and asking if I was interested in more trees to tap. I looked at the parcel and immediately saw a huge potential, it was about 28-30 acres of woods, mostly sugar maples, perfect 5-8% slope and away from piotential vandals because it was about 3/8 mile in off a dead end road. The only down side was that I needed to pump sap 800' acorss a neighbor to another road. The landowner arranged that before I even visited the land. The neighbor turned out to be a wonderful old lady, whose father had "sugared" in the Adirondaks when she was a kid, and she loves maple syrup. I pay here for the right to pump across her land. On both of my current leases I pay first in syrup until they have as much as they want, and I pay the rest by check.
Both of my leases are now on Ag assessment which reduces their taxes but that may not be available unless you really get bigger. In NY it requires you to have average sales the last 2 years in Ag products, a requirement I have only me 2 years since I started sugaring but before that I had and still have 4.5 acres of blueberries. The 2 added always exceed the $10,000 needed even in a bad year now but I have finally reached that in just maple if I ever had a year with zero blueberry sales. I don't know if other states are the same. In maple you would need about 200 gal/yr and sold at the right price. The sales must come from your income taxes filed so you must report the income, some do, some don't as I understand it. If you don't report income it is just a "hobby".
Can a maple operation thrive in the Burbs, I say yes, but it will take effort and determination, the maple addiction will drive it.

[mathprofdk]

Great tips, everyone. This has been very helpful. Definitely a lot to think about.

First, my current evaporator, by request! linked here (https://plus.google.com/photos/105617821852821251413/albums/5728352648225768321)

Because all the designs here are based on wood, I basically used that design and modified it. I'm only tapping trees in the neighborhood, so I don't need anything huge. The pan is basically 2x2, with the pot on the back acting as a pre-heater. The burners are furnace burners, and it runs on natural gas. I'm not entirely happy with the evaporation rate (about 4 gph), but it's a huge improvement on the turkey fryer I used last year. A friend of mine did all the fabrication. We plan on modifying the pan for next year, and then maybe modifying the back end with a flue pan in that back part, with maybe a stack preheater from my cold storage tank. But that's for another thread. Anyway, clearly small-time. In fact, we didn't even make 1 gallon this year, after more than doubling the amount of taps to 17 from 7 last year (2.5 gallons last year).

@PerryW: You make a VERY good point - I honestly think I might enjoy being a salesman more than a producer. I love designing and marketing, and I like working with people. I also like the production aspect, though, ad I love to make the "value-added" products like fudge, candied nuts, etc. The problem with moving to simply a "salesman" route, is that it's no longer MY product. I'm not as comfortable with that.

I definitely have plenty of trees just in the neighborhood to expand, though they're all mostly silvers, with a few reds and an occasional sugar mixed in. And collecting is a pain, because you've got one or two trees only on everybody's lot. Not conducive to collecting high volumes of sap!

@driske: I've actually contacted the county, and the reply I got was that it had to be prepared in "an approved commercial kitchen". I sent a follow-up trying to clarify if all the evaporating needed to be done in a kitchen (I don't think the woman had a clue about syrup), or if I could do the bulk of the evaporating elsewhere, and then finish inside in a local commercial kitchen (there are a few that you can rent). I got no reply. I'll try to follow up now.

And to those who suggested scouting and trying to trade/lease, that's a good plan as well. There's plenty of farmland nearby, and so that might be my only option. I don't know what that would mean about a sugarhouse, though, because I don't think I could build one on my little 50x150 residential lot.

Plenty to think about. Thanks for the great replies so far!

~DK

[SDdave]

Thanks for the link for the pict's. Very helpful in my quest on improvements.

SDdave

[Revi]

We've been doing a small operation in an area that's kind of a suburb. It's a great place to sell your product. People love visiting the sugarhouse and it's a fun experience.

Here's a vid of our operation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISbkO-NKA9o

[mathprofdk]

Thanks for the link, Revi. Pretty cool operation you have. Not really possible on my city plot, though!

[Michael Greer]

I started out tapping the trees in our yard...right in the middle of our small village. First year was fifty buckets, and it generated some interest from the neighbors. Second year I asked for permission and hung 100 buckets...this year 185, and invitations to tap another place a block away. These are huge old trees along the street and in backyards, all within sight of my house. I plan to expand to around 250 or 300 buckets. The neighbors all love syrup and you can spread an awful lot of good will with sweetness and good manners.

[mathprofdk]

Very cool, Michael. There are plenty of maples in the neighborhood, so that is my next plan. Unfortunately, our lots are fairly small, and most only have one or two. The parkway is lined with them as well, but the city said a big "no-no" when I asked. The man in charge of the streets is an arborist, too. I think it's just too odd of a request here in Illinois. So far, I have three neighbors tapped (1-3 trees each), with a couple more lined up for next year. My evaporator only does 4 gph, so I'm kind of limited in that way right now, too.