Another bender on eBay

[500592]

Not mine but I have one and they work great http://www.ebay.com/itm/COMPLETE-MILKING-MACHINE-BENDER-WASHER-RELEASER-W-ALL-COMPONENTS-CHECK-VALVE-/190658162863?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c641cb0af#ht_743wt_689

[heus]

How many taps could one of these handle?

[500592]

I think 200 taps maybe more.

[maple flats]

Those who use these, how do you protect from freezing? Do you exclude sap and bypass until the temps are higher?

[lpakiz]

Dave,
I use one on 200 taps. The sap comes in at the bottom of the releaser, gets drawn up into the jar until the float trips. Then the jar is vented to atmospheric pressure to allow the sap to "fall" out. Both the inlet check valve and the outlet check valve are mounted in a horizontal flow configuration, and on the same level, one on each side, under the Bender nipple. When sap runs without vacuum, it simply passes thru both check valves without being drawn up into the jar--and just dribbles itself into the tank. Never a problem there. Hope this helps.

[mike first timer]

Could you post some pictures of your set up? I just bought that bender on ebay and picked up a gast 1550 vacuum pump off ebay.I am just trying to get a visual on how i need to set this up Thanks.

[lpakiz]

5724Not too handy at this--gonna see if it made it. If it did, you can see the blue sap line come in thru the wall of the shack and hook onto the "TEE" under the Bender. The outlet check valve is farther to the right. I inserted a 90* elbow into the outlet check valve to direct sap down into the tank thru the old agitator hole. These valves are the exact same two as shown in the EBay link in Post # 1

OK looks like the pic made it.Notice how the sap can flow straight thru BOTH CHECK VALVES and dribble into the tank when there is no vacuum. NEVER a question of freezing in the glass Bender jar. Freezing in the line or in the nipple--now that has happened several times--with no consequences other than no vac for a short time.

[mike first timer]

So is the blue canister to the right a moisture trap or is it a filter? I was just wondering because it looks like i got a another little jar with the releaser i was trying to figure out what that was for? Thanks for the pictures.

[lpakiz]

Mike,
Yep, you nailed it. Just an empty water filter cannister with a racketball inside. You could use your "mason jar" moisture trap, but one that I had did not hold. If I did it again, I would get a clear cannister so it could be checked without opening.

[markcasper]

In addition to Larry's great advice and picture, I have ran them before with the sap coming in on the top nipple and the T checkvalve attached there. You have to block off or plug the top of the T, the part that normally would extend up into bottom of jar. Just have a straight piece of hose coming off the bottom with the large checkvalve located there. The idea with the top method is less vacumm restriction, whether it amounts to anything significant is another matter. I have ran them both ways and can't say I know one way or another. The picture in Larry's is exactly how they were designed to work in a milking application, the top was meant for washing only. If using the top, check the bell shaped inner housing for 2 small holes,some have them and some don't, you need to wrap them once or twice with food-grade electrical tape and close them off from the incoming sap. If you don't you will get a small bit of sap being pulled up into the vacuum line which not a good thing. Hope this helps.

[500592]

Larry do you have a pic of the top of he rod and the thing it goes through the lid I have one like it but I am missing the gray blue thing thanks.

[lpakiz]

No pics showing the breakdown of the internal parts. Sorry. Are you talking about the miniature "puck" that the rod goes into?
Mark Casper--I think you are on to something when you put your sap into the top port. I would have loved to do that but I have 1% grade so I could not afford to give up those 10-12 inches of elevation. I made an adaptor to plug the top port. It incorporates another vacuum gage. Significant difference in vacuum from the blue moisture trap gage and the one on the releaser top port.
Another advantage to putting sap into the upper "clean-out" port is (perhaps??) less agitation and foaming of the sap. In my set-up, air from the sap line has to flow up thru the sap to reach to top of the Bender. This causes wild agitation of the sap and lots of foam, which eventually gums up the rod and top "puck" thing the rod goes into.

[500592]

Yes the puck thing any descriptions or pics but better yet if you knew were I could get one thanks.

[farmall h]

Mike first timer. Guess you really wanted that unit bad. Wish you posted your need for one as I would have sold you one of mine for 1/2 that price. If you decide to go with two let me know. As Larry stated do NOT plumb your sap to enter the top port as that is for "wash" cycle only. Lots of turbulance is created in order to have a scrubbing effect. You certainly can switch you feed lines at the end of the season and feed hot soapy water into the jar to wash rather than dissassembling the unit. Also, just one check valve is necessay and by the looks of the picture on Ebay it is included. The white plastic "t" has a check ball inside it. Remember...if you have issues with float not activating the dump cycle than you have too much vacuum entering the jar. They are made to run on 14-16" vac. But I have had mine dump successfully at 18". During the summer time you can feed water into it until you find the "sweet-spot" of vacuum. Any questions don't hesitate to ask...many guys here have run these units.

[markcasper]

As Larry stated do NOT plumb your sap to enter the top port as that is for "wash" cycle only. Lots of turbulance is created in order to have a scrubbing effect. You certainly can switch you feed lines at the end of the season and feed hot soapy water into the jar to wash rather than dissassembling the unit.

Actually I believe I get less turbulence by the sap coming in on the top. As Larry said, having it come in the bottom has caused quite a bit of turbulence in that the sap and air coming in has to go UP in the jar. The top stem was for milking where could hook up the hose that ran to the stepsaver and run it in a closed circuit. I actually have had better results running the top end, there is one that I use that still comes in at the bottom because I have the same situation with grade as Larry described.

[500592]

Hey farmallh you should pm Spencer11 on here he has been having a hard time trying to find one I m sure he would love to buy one.

[farmall h]

Markcasper, the top inlet was designed for "wash" cycle when the dumping station was to be cleaned. Trust me, I milked on my folks farm for 20+ years. The only reason you would get turbulance is if there is very little sap flow or you have major leaks in the bush.

[farmall h]

500592, what do you mean by the "puck" thing? You mean the vac inlet stem that screws into the bracket?

[mike first timer]

Hey farmall, boy i wish i would of known that i am always a day late.Do you have the same exact one? Also if i can only run 18 inches of vacuum on these i must have to put a valve in after my vacuum pump to throttle it back is that how i would do that? Also how much do you want for that one you have? Sorry about all the question this will be my first year with vacuum.Thanks

[Dennis H.]

Just to give you guys a heads up I am going to be listing my Benders for sale here on the Trader shortly. I need to get pics of them setup but 1st need them cleaned up for the pics.

I have 2 small ones like the ones that was for sale on ebay and also one of those larger ones.

I'll keep you guys posted.

[markcasper]

Markcasper, the top inlet was designed for "wash" cycle when the dumping station was to be cleaned. Trust me, I milked on my folks farm for 20+ years. The only reason you would get turbulance is if there is very little sap flow or you have major leaks in the bush.

farmall, I milked with them too. Have you used them for sap on the top? It is true you will get more turbulence if theres leaks in the bush. I actually like running them better from the top for sap, you are never getting air trying to blow up through the jar of sap by having it come up from the bottom. The idea of using top is for better vacuum transfer. I am not trying to say your not right, its just that I have used them for milk and for sap as well. It is true for milk you'd never use the top, but maximum vacuum transfer was not a thought for milk versus sap. These were not designed for sap, so the only knowledge is other peoples experements.

[lpakiz]

Farmal H
I am puzzled as to how your Bender worked with only one check valve. Seems to me you need 2--one on the inlet to stop backflow into the sapline during dumping and the second one on the dump side to hold vaccum during the "suck" cycle. Or did you use a different CV somewhere? Got a few pics this AM (sone is home for the weekend with good camera and KNOWLEDGE of how to post pics.

Oh, and you're probably right on the turbulance caused by something. In my case, it is leaks that I cannot find. The laterals all check out perfect--sap barely moving thru jumper line from saddle to hooked connector. I suspect splices or saddle mounts themselves. I am going to try a different way to find leaks-by pressure on the mainline from the bottom end with my gas powered transfer pump--run slow with a guage and try for about 20-30 psi on the mainline while washing . Hope to see "water leaks" where vacuum leaks would be if under vacuum

[lpakiz]

57195720572157225723

[lpakiz]

Here's some shots of the building I moved into the woods for the sap tank and releaser and vacuum pump. How old do you think these boards are?? Notice the hand-hewn beams and wooden dowel pins in pic #2

5725572657275728

Sorry to change the focus of this post....

[lpakiz]

Well, seems I got some pics up finally. Guys with questions--study the pics and ask away....

[500592]

Here's another releaser http://www.ebay.com/itm/SURGE-UNIVERSAL-MILKER-RECEIVER-JAR-FOR-MILKING-MILK-SYSTEM-/260993937374?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc4736fde#ht_500wt_922

[farmall h]

Larry when the rod positions itself up when activated by the float there are holes positioned at the top of the rod. This allows vac to exit the jar. When it is in the pull down position vac is created in the jar. I have found when I used them that the sap inlet needed to be on the bottom to ensure smooth dumping action, Yes, if you are not having a good flow of sap you will have turbulance even if it is installed on the bottom. Higher vac can be obtained by adding weight on the "Bottom" of the rod. It's a trial and error method of figuring how much....but 15" of vac is fine ....it's the Hg's that matter anyway. The greater the Hg's the greater the "pull". At least that's the way I understand it.

[farmall h]

Also Larry, the plastic "T" located to right in pic 2 is the "check" valve. During the dump cycle the plastic ball inside the "T" moves back which allows the flow of sap to dump.

[lastwoodsman]

Farmall h
Judging from your reply to Larry this would be why I have the turbulance on my bender which has the sap come in from the side. I get 15 HGs at the end of each of my 400 foot lines. Everything seems to work well but I do have a lot of turbulance on low sap flow dlays which was every day this season. It was my first yr using a bender and I think I would prefer the smaller one like Larrys that pulls sap up from the bottom. You can see the turbulance I was having and as far as I could tell my system was pretty tight.
Any thoughts after seeing the video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOnmFMBgU10&feature=youtu.be

Woodsman

[Dennis H.]

It doesn't take a lot of air to cause that much turbulence in a liquid.
Unless you have a vac manifold upstream of the bender then the only way for vac to get to your taps is thru the bender itself. So it must pul the vac thru what ever is in the bender, sap included.

I have a check valve right at the sap inlet of the bend nd then I placed a 3" vac manifold right before that but positioned it above the bender so besides being where my mains come into it also is a place for the sap to collect while it is dumping. I also have the main vac line from the pump coming in here. So no vac has to go thru the bender to get to the taps.
Basically I coped the concept of a real maple sap released.

[500592]

Here's another bender http://www.ebay.com/itm/MILKING-MACHINE-BENDER-WASHER-RELEASER-MODEL-B-1000-VERY-GOOD-CONDITION?item=190662762009&cmd=ViewItem&_trksid=p5197.m1374&_trkparms=algo%3DUPI.GIROS%26itu%3DI%26otn%3D8%26p mod%3D170781401922%26po%3DLWI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D 7539023047531743136#ht_572wt_689

[lastwoodsman]

Dennis
I was thinking when watching my bender this season something like that may be needed.
Would you have a photo of your setup with the manifold.
Placing the manifold above would then solve the problem of the surging as the vacuum would not have to fight going through the sap while waiting for the bender to fill.
I will have to search for a thread on manifolds with or on benders.
The smaller benders that pull from the bottom such as Larrys setup would eliminate the need for a manifold --correct?
Woodsman

[Dennis H.]

Let me see what I can do.

http://mapletrader.com/maplegallery/showphoto.php?photo=541&title=small-bender&cat=500

http://mapletrader.com/maplegallery/showphoto.php?photo=542&title=small-bender&cat=500

As you can see the T at the top of the 3" PVC pipe manifold feeds vac to the Bender.
The sap mainlines come in the 1" holes on the side of the manifold. I have 2 of the holes plugged for now.
I used a flapper style checkvalve between the manifold and Bender. I mounted it vertically so that it drains completely when vac is off and also there would be very little resistance for the sap to get into the Bender.
I used the same style of checkvalve for the dump valve also.
One side of the manifold I cut a circle of plexiglass to cover it and I used silicone to hold and seal it up. I needed no screws and fasteners of any kind here, vac holds it nicely.
The other side of the manifold I used one of those test plugs, that way I can quickly remove it to clean it out of any ice of junk if needed.

[lastwoodsman]

Dennis
Thanks so much for the photos, worth a thousand words. Evidently my search skills bite. I looked and did not find that link.
I am going to home depot and or lowes this week-end. I have a idea how mine should look like and hook up to my setup.
The tip on the silicon and the pexiglass end is great.
Woodsman

[jmayerl]

Here's another bender http://www.ebay.com/itm/MILKING-MACHINE-BENDER-WASHER-RELEASER-MODEL-B-1000-VERY-GOOD-CONDITION?item=190662762009&cmd=ViewItem&_trksid=p5197.m1374&_trkparms=algo%3DUPI.GIROS%26itu%3DI%26otn%3D8%26p mod%3D170781401922%26po%3DLWI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D 7539023047531743136#ht_572wt_689This one is gonna be mine so no one else even try!

[500592]

I can't believe no one has bid on this one it ends in two hours http://www.ebay.com/itm/SURGE-UNIVERSAL-MILKER-RECEIVER-JAR-FOR-MILKING-MILK-SYSTEM-/260993937374?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc4736fde#ht_500wt_922

[twobears1224]

if i had known about it i would have bid on it i have one just like it and could use another one..i did a search on ebay this morning and it didn,t come up..just the bender did.i have it saved now.

[500592]

Type in surge it is on there again

[twobears1224]

i have it on my watch list.

[heus]

What about the one in the classifieds here how many taps could it handle?

[lastwoodsman]

Let me see what I can do.

http://mapletrader.com/maplegallery/showphoto.php?photo=541&title=small-bender&cat=500

http://mapletrader.com/maplegallery/showphoto.php?photo=542&title=small-bender&cat=500

As you can see the T at the top of the 3" PVC pipe manifold feeds vac to the Bender.
The sap mainlines come in the 1" holes on the side of the manifold. I have 2 of the holes plugged for now.
I used a flapper style checkvalve between the manifold and Bender. I mounted it vertically so that it drains completely when vac is off and also there would be very little resistance for the sap to get into the Bender.
I used the same style of checkvalve for the dump valve also.
One side of the manifold I cut a circle of plexiglass to cover it and I used silicone to hold and seal it up. I needed no screws and fasteners of any kind here, vac holds it nicely.
The other side of the manifold I used one of those test plugs, that way I can quickly remove it to clean it out of any ice of junk if needed.

Dennis
Just got back from lowes and purchased most of wlhat I need . Tomorrows project is to start on it.
Did these benders while used on the farm have manifolds?, I just do not remember. They mmust of.
Mostly cream cans and bulk tanks everyone carried buckets to when I was a kid.
Woodsman

[spencer11]

how many taps will that universal surge releaser on ebay take?

spencer

[500592]

Just as much as a bender I think

[farmall h]

Hey DennisH, nice manifold set-up for the bender. If I'm not mistaken you have 2 benders running yes? So when they dump you still have continue vacuum to your trees. Nice. Last season you said you were going to do something like that!
Also, did you make those 250 gal. tanks?

[farmall h]

No Woodsman they did not have manifolds. As you may remember they were designed to save carrying pails of milk to the bulk tank. Hence the name "Step-Saver" on the Universal model. Anyway...ours came with a round tank on wheels and a 100ft hose. We would dump the milk in the cart tank which included a milk filter. Oh, in the bottom of the cart there used to be a plastic ball that would shut off the vac once the tank emptied. They were an efficient use of vacuum!:)

[Dennis H.]

No I did not make the tank. Found it locally in classifieds.

Now for the Benders, yeap with the manifolds there is always vac on the tubing. Any mechanical released will cause some back surging of sap in the lats and hooking up the bender the way I did was no different. But while it is dumping I can still see sap flowing into the manifold.

This past year I ran only one bender, the one in those pics that you saw. I bought a hobby releaser to replace the
other bender. I looking to sell off one of the small Benders to help offset the cost of the hobby released.

I want to use another hobby released on the new tubing set up

[lastwoodsman]

5760[/ATTACH]57595760

Dennis
Well I got er done and will hook it up next week-end and test run it at the sugar shack.. Here are the photos. Some final adjustments will need to be made as I mount it and finalize the connections.
Thanks again for all your help
Woodsman

[Dennis H.]

Looking good. Put a checkvalve between that and the Bender and it should rock and roll.

[ClarkFarmMapleSyrup]

What is that thing dennis and lastwoodsman are building? Is it something for a homemade releaser? Can you use one of those for a releaser?
I havent looked at this thread lately, so i dont remember what your building.

[lastwoodsman]

Clarksfarm this should explain it.
Woodsman



It doesn't take a lot of air to cause that much turbulence in a liquid.
Unless you have a vac manifold upstream of the bender then the only way for vac to get to your taps is thru the bender itself. So it must pul the vac thru what ever is in the bender, sap included.

I have a check valve right at the sap inlet of the bend nd then I placed a 3" vac manifold right before that but positioned it above the bender so besides being where my mains come into it also is a place for the sap to collect while it is dumping. I also have the main vac line from the pump coming in here. So no vac has to go thru the bender to get to the taps.
Basically I coped the concept of a real maple sap released.

[ClarkFarmMapleSyrup]

But one of those couldnt be used by itself as a releaser without having another part that dumped the sap right? do any of you 2 know how to make a homemade releaser like that?
I am trying to get a bender or something but they are going for alot now so i want to try and make one if you have a design,...anyone?
thanks for the help,
JC

[Dennis H.]

No, what is shown in the photo can't be used by it self.
Here is my setup that I used this past season.
http://mapletrader.com/maplegallery/showphoto.php?photo=541&title=small-bender&cat=500

As you can see there is the Bender out front and then the Manifold and swing style checkvalve going up the back. I found that mounting the manifold higher than the Bender helps to get the sap down into the Bender.
The vac for the Bender comes from the T at the top of the manifold, also vac gets to the mainlines thru the manifold.

[lpakiz]

Dennis, does the sap line and the manifold have to be higher than the bender? I don't have much slope, so every inch of elevation is valuable... Then, will the sap fill the bender just because liquid seeks it's own level, or does vacuum also help "lift" the sap into the bender?

[ClarkFarmMapleSyrup]

Dennis could you PM me a few pics of your setup. I just got plans to make a homemade releaser, but i want to add one of those things you have made, so i have continuos vac on the lines, and i can see the sap. I will have to make the pipe connecting to releaser alittle different but id like to know what i need to make one like you did. I havent started building the releaser yet, but will soon i hope. thanks,
JC

[Dennis H.]

Ipakz, Once it is up and running with the manifold the sap will seek its own level because there will be the same vac potential in the Bender and manifold.
That is one of the reasons that I went with the clear checkvalves. So that I can watch what is going on.
My first manifold that I made had a end cap on one end and the test plug on the other, no way to see inside. So I got some plexiglass and made a nice clear end plate.
Not a lot to write home about but it gave me a way to see how the sap reacts to the Bender cycling.

ClarkfarmMaple, Let me get some pics together that show differnet stuff and I will send them your way.

[500592]

Dennis could you PM me a few pics of your setup. I just got plans to make a homemade releaser, but i want to add one of those things you have made, so i have continuos vac on the lines, and i can see the sap. I will have to make the pipe connecting to releaser alittle different but id like to know what i need to make one like you did. I havent started building the releaser yet, but will soon i hope. thanks,
JC
Hey were did you find the plans and how many taps would it be good for.

[Dennis H.]

Plans? I don't need no stinking Plans!

Actually I just looked at a full size sap releaser and went from there. It is in its basic form the same as the Bender.
As a milk receiver there is no big deal when vac is cut off till the Bender dumps, so a checkvalve right at the inlet is fine, but with sap you are trying your best to keep the surging down and also the back flow to the trees. If you can keep vac on the mains and lats then there is less back flowing of sap into the drops and ultimatly into the tap hole.
That is what the manifold and checkvalve do. Allow as continuous as possible to have vac on the mains. If you have a nice tight tubing system then for those few moments that the Bender is dumping the tubing will still have full vac and the manifold is there to hold it till the Bender resets.

It really is a very simple mechanical thing.

[500592]

Dennis I was talking about the plans for the releaser.

[Dennis H.]

Sorry about that, my bad.:emb:

[ClarkFarmMapleSyrup]

500592 look at jrgagne99 's profile. PM him. He uses it on 120 taps, and it is a fairly easy thing to build. I will be constructing mine soon this summer. Ill let you know how it comes out. I like the design, too, and it is fairly cheap to build.

[lastwoodsman]

50092
Further back on this thread Dennis posted photos of his manifold. I downloaded them to my laptop printed them out and used them to build mine.
It is pretty easy to follow using the photos.
Here is the link to Dennis's photos:

http://mapletrader.com/maplegallery/showphoto.php?photo=542&title=small-bender&cat=500

Woodsman

[jmayerl]

here's one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Milk-maple-sap-bender-washer-releaser-/110997741761?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d7fb20c1