Like or dislike your cdl ro??

[mrnorthshore]

I am looking at adding a ro this year and was looking at a 600 gph CDL, just wanting to see if people are happy with there CDL'S and if they would buy one again. Thanks

[Walling's Maple Syrup]

I am looking at adding a ro this year and was looking at a 600 gph CDL, just wanting to see if people are happy with there CDL'S and if they would buy one again. ThanksWe have a CDL 1200 expandable, which we added another membrane to, which made it an 1800. Have had great luck with it and I wouldn't buy anything else. In my opinion, they are the best on the market. Have had a springtech also, I like CDL RO's much better. Neil

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

I have both a CDL and a LaPierre. I like them both. I would not hesitate to buy either brand again. Might come down to price and flexibility.

[Jeff E]

Love it. Works great, no problems in 4 seasons. looking to expand ours, rather than replace...

[Meridian Maples]

The units are great.

[ennismaple]

I have a love/hate relationship with our CDL 600gph RO. It reminds me of a Johnny Cash song - 1 Piece at a Time! We've replaced the overload protection breaker, the needle valve for the membrane pressure, 2 hoses, the temperature probe and the high pressure pump - all within the last 3 years. I don't think we'd buy another one other but we're slowly replacing it 1 Piece at a Time! Customer service has left a lot to be desired.

[Brian Ryther]

I know you asked about CDL but ennismaple's comment is a reflection of the experence I have had with Lapierre. The best I can figure it they are the two best ro's on the market. Some of us have had problems other have not. When they are working they are awsome. When they are not you better know your service rep. Figure out what dealer will service you the best if or when it breaks down. If the better service delear is more expensive it does not matter. I have lost the hundreds of dollars that I saved when I purchased my ro due to bad service. But I love my ro, when it works.

[Russell Lampron]

I'm surprised to see the complaints of bad customer service from CDL. I have heard that Lapierres customer service is bad but haven't had a problem with them myself. I have had and abused my Lapierre RO since 2005 and haven't had any problems with it. When I have needed anything from Lapierre a phone call was always enough to get what I needed without a run around.

[lew]

Purchased a new 2400 CDL this spring. Did more than I expected. Was able to take 1% sap to 12% in a single pass at 1800 gph with only 330 psi. Loved the automation (our old RO only had an automatic shutdown when you were processing sap, nothing else). Like others have said, service was somewhat overlooked shall we say. 1 of the towers had a leak between the recirc pump and the main vessel housing. they did overnight a a couple of smaller O-rings to jam in with the original O-ring to stop the leak. Then promised to have a tech here the next week to replace the housing, thenthat turned into two weeks then that turned into after the end of the season. It ran flawlessly during the season. I desided not to send a check for payment until the machine was fixed properly and I did communicate that to them through the dealer that sold it to me. As soon as that was said, a new tower was in my sugarhouse in time to put the last 2 loads of sap through. I felt like a jerk doing that, but I felt that I didn't have a choice. the only other negative was with their dealer network. I was able to find only one dealer that was willing to take my 20 year old Coster RO in on trade. That was Henry Brenneman in Saulsbury, PA ( a long way away from me). Well I guess that ticked off not only local dealers, but also people up in the Vermont office. I thought I was able to purchase from whoever I wanted to here in the USA, maybe it's different in Canada. Anyway, he was the only one willing to offer me anything for the old machine, so I went with him. He stood behind me 110%, an excellent man to deal with. But I digress. Excellent machine and does more than what they said it would.

[white mt]

I have a cdl 600 and found it to be top notch . The reason I went with a cdl was what I was told by others about the service . After repeated calls for the learning curve and a feed line issue my fault, I found them to be top notch In service as well.I was given the area sales reps cell phone I called him he always answered and helped me right out. Anyone can sell you a ro but after the sale is when you really need them.

[markcasper]

Meridian Maples, you must do your banking in the same local?

I love my machine, the service sucks. Noone returns your phone calls. I was told to run hard well water through at the beginning of the season and on the 3rd year the membrane failed. This should not have been the instructions! I talked to the big daddy in Vermont I was so mad, he said they could restore my membrane with that special touch. What a joke!! They just wanted to sell another membrane with a special discount, which was still $350 more than I bought a new one from elsewhere. I worry about the time when it starts breaking. Its also bad that CDL has shafted former dealer and hangs them out to dry!

On a side note, I have bought alot of things over the years, but I never get a CDL catalog in the mail or any other important CDL announcements. I have brought it up many times over the decades and somehow I still keep falling through the cracks as far as getting a yearly catalog. It certainly baffles me how that can keep happening, especially after having your name pinned on a bulletin board that says "NEEDS CATALOG".
I hear CDL wants to run Leader out of business. They keep the bad service up and that won't ever happen.

[Mathieu]

It seems that we have some service fails in USA...
We works hard here at CDL service department in Canada to talk directly to our customers when they have questions.
Its just to know and to understand whats happend in USA. For equipements issues, did you try to talk to our main technician Nick at CDL USA in St-Albans?
For service issues, did you try to talk to our general manager Daniel at CDL USA in St-Albans?
Thanks to reply.

[Snow Hill Farm]

I have had excellent luck with my 600 gph CDL RO for 2 years. Like another post said, I can do more than i expected and 1.0% sap will go to 9.5% without maxing out pressure. Instructions are simple and manual is helpful. As far as service, I haven't needed it but my dealer Mansfield Forest products set it all up and has been more than helpful answering questions on the phone when I have them and he gave me his home and cell number. Prices between CDL, Lapierre and D&G were similar and Leader was way higher.

[markcasper]

For service issues, did you try to talk to our general manager Daniel at CDL USA in St-Albans?
.

yes I did..

[Mathieu]

Hard well water is not suppose to be a problem unless they contain chlorine. What was your membrane model? It fail during the season or at the test before? It pass sugar or it plug?

For the catalog, I don't know how it works in USA but here, I think that we send it to those he comes to the open house and fill the draw.

[Walling's Maple Syrup]

We have dealt with CDL in St. Albans since Tim Bockus started there as salesman. We do 90% of our business there and he is the reason why. Goes above and beyond to take care of his customers. In the spring alot of employees make their own syrup and take time off of work and this is one of the main reasons for service failure. Tim has always been there for us and always returns phone calls the same day. An asset to the company and a pleasure to deal with. Neil

[markcasper]

Hard well water is not suppose to be a problem unless they contain chlorine. What was your membrane model? It fail during the season or at the test before? It pass sugar or it plug?



All its perfect. You have to supply your RO with soft water and push the start button.


This is one of the reasons I have lost confidence with CDL! One day hard well water is ok, the next day it isn't.

At the beginning of a seminar last fall, Scott Boyce's eyeball got really, really big when I asked about using hard well water to rinse a membrane. He stated no,no,noo,no that is a BIG no-no. By the end of the seminar in personal consultation, the tune changed 100% and that, in Scott's words, "hard well water didn't plug your membrane."

I had a mark1, plugged during the 3rd season....51% plugged, restored to only 60% after pro. washing = junk.

[Mathieu]

Maybe its was my language fail. I never say to anyone don't use hard well water in your RO to rince your membranes. In french, soft water is spring water, hard water is chemical treated water and permeate is the water rejected by the membrane. I just want to be sure that it don't use chemical treated water to rince his membranes. We don't need absolutely permeate to rince a membrane. I think its my fault and I'm sorry for this mistake.

For the membranes. hard hell water don't plug membranes. Too high rejection % can plug a membrane but not water. The only thing ward well water can do to a membrane is passing sugar if it contain chlorine. Do you have washing details of the (pro) wash(# of soap, acid, others wash). When it plug, the Mark 1 are the most difficult membrane to restore due to his too high mineral retention conception. I tried a lot of times but results are the baddest of all new generation membranes (Mark1, MarkE8, H20) And now, what type of membrane did you have now? It works great?

[markcasper]

Mathieu,

I sent you a pm.

[Mathieu]

Mark,

No problem, I replied.

So, we can continue the thread if someone want to let his comments!

[sapmaple]

mrnorthshore

I've had a cdl 600 gph RO for five years and have been very happy with it Two years ago had to send it up to cdl usa (I'm only two hour drive from them) to replace some bearings in high pressure pump so I had them wire it up for the second post. I added the second post this year and it ran 1000 plus gph all season long with the 5 hp pressure pump I'm very pleased it ran much easier and at a lower pressure 250 psi

Yes i think the customer service at cdl usa could be better ( thats true with a lot of bussiness i know)
But generally they have been willing to work through issues As for help with the RO " Nick" set it up for me at the sugar house explained how to run it and any questions I've had since He always calls me back if I don't get him and has talked me through problems He knows these RO's inside and out!! He told me better to use soft water if permeate not available I still don't get a cdl Catalog in the mail even though I've requested it Hope this helps

Kevin

[Greenwich Maple Man]

I looked into a CDL . I went with a Lap. for the simple reason that it saved me a few dollars. I've been happy thus far with the Lap. I will say that I've seen several CDL machines and they look very good. As far as the customer service I think alot would depend on the dealer. I'm near Sothern VT. and my dealer in this area is Chris Lanfear in West Rutland. I would have full trust in dealing with Chris on any products. I've purchased tubing, fittings and a tank through him and have been 100% happy. I know Chris would provide great customer service. Therefore I would not hesitate to purchase a CDL machine at all , or any CDL product.

[mrnorthshore]

Thanks everyone for all the replies!! Still dont know what to do, but I think that I need to visit with the local dealer at Rothsugarbush in WI and see how they are and go from there. Thanks again, paul

[ennismaple]

IMO - your local dealer is the most important part of the decision. I'm sure you can get a problem machine from either company. If your dealer will help you get service quickly to keep you running that should be weighted heavily in your decision. Saving a few hundred dollars on the machine can quickly cost you more if that machine isn't running when the sap is!

[driske]

If you're coming that far down from Minn. you may want to shop at Midwest Maple Supply in Goodrich, WI. as well. Whitney Rinehart , the owner, is handling Lapierre line of Evap and RO. This guy is new to the ranks of maple dealers, but is gifted mechanically,and an excellent technician. He spent a week in training for RO service this last FEB. He has been a great local resource for service and supplies.
His shop is located about an hour east of Roth and the Phone is 715-965-0490.

[Meridian Maples]

0000000000000000

[markcasper]

guys over here on the extreme western side of the state and Minnesota are more or less if its anything to do with cdl then?. Has anybody ever got anything ever going with cdl over in Minnesota?

cdl lost my order for a releaser that I booked last May and paid for in August. The order went missing about the time the public found out about my failed membrane, so I don't know what happened. I still don't have it. Arrangements have been made with the dealer however that I will get a different brand now. You can't do much other when the order goes missing.

[sweetscotty]

i hope that everyone that was reading this post was paying attention to what actually happened as a RO operator we all need to understand that as the season goes on your sap gets bad ( slimy, cloudy, green ) and what most people dont watch for is the PH level in there sap at the end of the season. Sap would test around 7.0/7.4 on average when its good, sap that starts to go bad could test as low as 5.0/5.5. So what happens is the membrane starts to close up and in return starts to plug. when we wash membrane we add PH up to 12/12.5 so that it will open the membrane and release the solids. If you where an expert RO operator Mr.Maple Addict you would have noticed your flows dropping off as the season was going because it happens over time and not instanly, you could have bench mark your membrane and known to stop running the bad sap through. As I own a CDL RO they teach you how to bench mark in the owners manual, thats if you took the time to read it. So to all that is following this post becareful who you take your advise from.

[Meridian Maples]

I would't trade the CDL RO I have for another because of the way it works I just feel the customer service could have been better.

[markcasper]

i hope that everyone that was reading this post was paying attention to what actually happened as a RO operator we all need to understand that as the season goes on your sap gets bad ( slimy, cloudy, green ) and what most people dont watch for is the PH level in there sap at the end of the season. Sap would test around 7.0/7.4 on average when its good, sap that starts to go bad could test as low as 5.0/5.5. So what happens is the membrane starts to close up and in return starts to plug. when we wash membrane we add PH up to 12/12.5 so that it will open the membrane and release the solids. If you where an expert RO operator Mr.Maple Addict you would have noticed your flows dropping off as the season was going because it happens over time and not instanly, you could have bench mark your membrane and known to stop running the bad sap through. As I own a CDL RO they teach you how to bench mark in the owners manual, thats if you took the time to read it. So to all that is following this post becareful who you take your advise from.

To the author of this post I ask the following. You sound like you know an awful lot about my situation, are you Scott Boyce? I was laughed at when I asked about a ph meter, after that, I was directed to go to the pharmacy or hardware store and get strips. The wife couldn't find anything higher than 8, so that did no good. Ended up getting a ph meter from somewhere else the following year

I have never heard that you shouldn't run late-season sap through a membrane, this is news to me. If my membrane plugged because of that, it still has not been mentioned to me.

Benchmarking? I certainly did that and have evidence that I did. It was like day and night when it dropped, it did not SLOWLY drop as you describe. It was within 2 days or so. I always checked it at the end and the first 2 years it was identical for readings.
Who you take advice from?? Isn't that the truth!

One thing to all RO holders, change out your membranes storage solution after 5 months of storage. I learned that the solution gets week where it not strong enough.

[sapmaple]

Just a note on pH meters you need to Re-calibrate them from time to time to be sure they are giving you an accurate reading ( so I found out)

[markcasper]

Just a note on pH meters you need to Re-calibrate them from time to time to be sure they are giving you an accurate reading ( so I found out)

A good re-calibration kit is essential as well.

[mrnorthshore]

DRISKE, I spoke to Whitney Rinehart a few day ago and he seem like a very nice helpful guy. I never thought that we had any lapierre dealers over this far west. Has anyone used a Lapierre RO before?? Are they ok RO's?? They are a little cheaper then CDL!! ( about $1500) for a 600 gph

[Greenwich Maple Man]

DRISKE, I spoke to Whitney Rinehart a few day ago and he seem like a very nice helpful guy. I never thought that we had any lapierre dealers over this far west. Has anyone used a Lapierre RO before?? Are they ok RO's?? They are a little cheaper then CDL!! ( about $1500) for a 600 gph

Like I said in a previos post. I have a 600 exp. Lap. R.O. I like it very much . Zero problems thus far however it is brand new. The service was alright at best. I believe that when you spend that kind of money the company should send a tech. to guide you through the first start up. If I went that route with Lap. I would have ended up paying a service call of over $500.00 dollars. I spoke to them on the phone and did alot of figuring on my own. In the end it worked very well. If I were to go new again this year with a bigger maichine I would probebly go CDL do to the fact of the local dealer Chris Lanfear. I do believe that he would provide good service. You realy need to look at who your dealer is. Does his personalty seem like he will provide good service and will he go to bat for you if something breaks under warrenty or is he just going to not return your calls? Service is everything with this kind of $ purchase.

[markcasper]

DRISKE, I spoke to Whitney Rinehart a few day ago and he seem like a very nice helpful guy. I never thought that we had any lapierre dealers over this far west. Has anyone used a Lapierre RO before?? Are they ok RO's?? They are a little cheaper then CDL!! ( about $1500) for a 600 gph

Did he mention if he had sold a few around the area yet? Is he there by himself, or is it a father-son type of business? I am just wondering.

[maplwrks]

Heres my opinion for what it's worth---CDL and Lapierre are almost identical. Christian Chabot (CDL) and Donald Lapierre were business partners and developed the Lapierre RO. Having seen and run both,(CDL was limited) I feel that the recirculation on the Lapierre is superior to the CDL. Different areas can see a different level of service than others, depending on the dealer.Here in VT, both CDL and Lapierre have a limited service crew to work on machines. Sometimes, the producer needs to educate himself on the maintenance and repair of his machine. Touring other sugarhouses in the off season can help someone with understanding the set-up of an RO. Something to remember, most of the guys working in both of these places are sugarmakers also, and are extremely busy during the spring.

[lew]

Heres my opinion for what it's worth---CDL and Lapierre are almost identical. Christian Chabot (CDL) and Donald Lapierre were business partners and developed the Lapierre RO. Having seen and run both,(CDL was limited) I feel that the recirculation on the Lapierre is superior to the CDL. Different areas can see a different level of service than others, depending on the dealer.Here in VT, both CDL and Lapierre have a limited service crew to work on machines. Sometimes, the producer needs to educate himself on the maintenance and repair of his machine. Touring other sugarhouses in the off season can help someone with understanding the set-up of an RO. Something to remember, most of the guys working in both of these places are sugarmakers also, and are extremely busy during the spring.

maplwrks, said it all when you said the producer needs to educate himself. nobody can afford to wait on a dealer/tech. If your boiling and having problems with your RO, then your dealer is boiling too and you come in second, at best, to his boiling. You better be able to work on these machines yourself. Obviously with some help over the phone, but your on your own for the most part. I've run a Coster RO for 20 years and made all repairs myself, what few there were. I just purchased a new CDL this spring and was as nervous as a whore in church about something going wrong because I am not familiar with these machines. Something did go wrong but with a couple of phone calls i was up and running. Sugaring is a do it yourself business for the most part.

[mrnorthshore]

Mark, Whitney did not say if he sold any of these units yet( but I dont think so) . I did not ask him if it was just himself or him and his family running the show. It sounded like he was new at being a dealer and had just bought a lapierre 600gph himself,but never used it because of the bad year( all 8 days of it). He was very helpful and was talking that he would help me with the setup of the ro if I need it.

[maplwrks]

Don't get me wrong, I still have a lot to learn. I have been able to change all of my pumps on my Lapierre.It usually takes a phone call to get me headed in the right direction. If I were just starting out though, I would do things like I did. I spent a lot of time looking at different producers RO rooms, trying to plan my design.I did all of the work in my RO room, but my dealer did come down to fire it up for the first time. This was necessary for me, even though I had run a couple of other ROs. The more you can do for yourself, the less time the dealer will need to spend with you building something that you should have done.

[driske]

My experience with Whitney goes back 8 years. He does custom harvesting in our area. Grains, hay, etc. His mechanical skill is uncanny. His shop is equipped with lathes, plasma cutters, brakes, presses, you name it. If he can't find a part he makes it. He is a great welder, including stainless steel. If the problem is electrical and he finds it a challenge, he refers it to his brother who is an electrical engineer.
His wife is helping with the equipment sales and his brother takes care of most of what goes on in their sugar bush. It seems he can focus on sales and service. That a brief recap of the Midwest Maple folks.
I have run a Lapierre 600GPH for the last 7 years. I bought it used through Maple Hollow. The thing hasn't missed a beat in that time. Three years ago I added a second post. Performance wise it runs about 4.5GPM conc and 9-10GPM permeate at 225PSI....hour after hour.. day after day....year after year. It has been the backbone of our operation in years when we made 5-7,000 gallons of syrup and NEVER let us down.

[mrnorthshore]

Lew, I just put my old coster on 4 different sites trying to sell it, I will have to wait and see what happens. Just listed it a couple day ago on mapletrader is this what yours looked like?? This one was not designed for maple.

[syrupmaker]

We have recently purchased a CDL RO from Roth's in Cadott. We decided to go with them because they first off were extremley helpful with explaining the whole process with us as well as them having a service tech that has been trained in their VT and Canada locations. He's available anytime both during season and out of season. We had great experience here, just wanted to add my input.

[markcasper]

We have recently purchased a CDL RO from Roth's in Cadott. We decided to go with them because they first off were extremley helpful.Something seems astray here. You are from Florence and Maple Hollow would be half the distance. Maple Hollow sells stuff made by CDL, via Roth's, but with what fuel prices are, I am surprised by this whole post.

[PETE FELCH]

mark our new one was purchased from maple hollow and roth delivered it figure that out. We have two cdl ro's 3 post and six post . the six post was new this year . the old one we had problems with the high pressure turbines leaking sap into the motor bearings, had to replace two turbines but we were told they have that problem solved.As for the price the boss priced a six post lapierre and it was more than the cdl must be different price sheets for different people.

[lew]

mrnorthshore, YOurs has the 4" membranes and extremely long and flat. Mine looked to be about the size of a refrigerator and had 2 8" membranes. Processed 8-900 gallons per hour 2 to 8% with Mark I membranes at 400-450 psi. The new CDL with 4 Mark 8 membranes processed 1800 gallons per hour from 1 to 12% at 300 psi. Awesome machine.

[brookledge]

I'm very happy with my 600 CDL. The thing that I liked was the wash tank was part of the RO. The other reason I bought a CDL was the dealer. He is close by and has been very helpful.
Also listening to the comments about membranes, One thing that I did not see mentioned is that The different types of membranes are more fussy about Ph. So my feeling is you need to understand your membrane to know how it works, what are the advantages and disadvantages.
Lastly when you get good service from your local dealer like I do go with that brand he sells
Keith

[markcasper]

We have recently purchased a CDL RO. We decided to go with them because they first off were extremley helpful with explaining the whole process with us as well as them having a service tech that has been trained in their VT and Canada locations. He's available anytime both during season and out of season. We had great experience here, just wanted to add my input.

What procedure were you instructed to use for flushing the membrane prior to startup?

[syrupmaker]

Mark

i was told to use the softest water i could get but good well water was ok and that i needed 400 gallons or more and i needed to soak my membrane for aleast 24 hr's before i flushed it.
And for the reason i went to roth's to get my ro is that they sell 20-25 a year and they have a service guy there for me during the season and they do the service for the other cdl dealers in the state, i guess they are now a corp store what ever that mean's? But they have been there for over 50 years so they must be ok

[markcasper]

As for the price the boss priced a six post lapierre and it was more than the cdl must be different price sheets for different people.
Pete, Sounds strange considering mrnorthshore obtained a cheaper quote on a Lappierre. I suppose maybe there is different price sheets for different people, especially when you are the largest syrup producer in the state.