Tap lease - price per tap?

[TimJ]

I am considering offering to pay to lease taps next year (approx 200). I heard that the market price was on the order of $1 per tap. Is this correct?

Does any body have direct experience or hard information on this?

This is for Chittenden County, VT

[spud]

Although a dollar a tap is about the going rate you might want to just give the land owner 2-4 gallons of syrup instead. If you put the syrup in pint jugs then the land owner could give it as gifts to family or friends. Three gallons all in pint jugs would be close to $200.00

Spud

[PerryW]

$1 a tap sounds high. I thought $0.40 to $0.50 was a typical taphole rental rate? I know ten years or so ago it was $0.20-0.25 per tap

[TimJ]

Although a dollar a tap is about the going rate you might want to just give the land owner 2-4 gallons of syrup instead. If you put the syrup in pint jugs then the land owner could give it as gifts to family or friends. Three gallons all in pint jugs would be close to $200.00

Spud

That's a good thought - but the owner of the land already make syrup - they just can't handle all the trees/taps - so bartering is not likely.

[Snow Hill Farm]

I'm in the next town over (Westford, VT) and am paying 0.75/tap if that helps.

[Kngowods]

What about if it's all red and silver maples?

[halfast tapper]

I think the state of vermont has the fairest way to pay per tap. They take the price per pound wholesale for fancy and for commericial and take the average between them. Then they take 25% of the average. That is you price per tap for that year.

[maple flats]

I also pay $.75/tap. I pay as much as the landowner wants in syrup and the rest in a check.

[maple flats]

By Vermont's formula, at what point do they set the price? This year like 2008 will see the bulk price climb rapidly.

[PerryW]

By Vermont's formula, at what point do they set the price? This year like 2008 will see the bulk price climb rapidly.

looks like they use the previous year's prices. Here's an email yesterday from my buddy in the Vermont AOT:

The State of Vermont charges an annual tapping fee for sugaring licenses on state land. It is based on a formula that averages the previous year's bulk per pound syrup prices for Fancy and Commercial Grade times 25%. THis has resulted in tap fees that have ranged from 60 to 67 cents per tap over the past few years. We don't differentiate between gravity vs. vacuum, tho that's not a bad idea. Sugaring in Vermont is about over as well. Ski season and sugaring season have both been a bust.

[Amber Gold]

I'm paying $0.50/tap plus a gallon of syrup, I usually throw in extra syrup and confections. I'm going to approach him this season about extending the lease to 10 years, maybe 15 years, and paying him $1/tap with language in there about a payment adjustment if the cost of syrup increases substantially. My existing 5 year lease is too short for long term planning.

[waysidemaple]

Just got the go ahead to tube my neighbor's 1000 trees and ill be paying .75 cents a tap. I'm pretty happy with that because I can run my 1000 taps to a black top road and use their electric to run a liquid ring pump. I was willing to go up to a dollar a tap but I really wanted those trees.

scott

[220 maple]

Maple Flats,

I don't think the price of bulk syrup will go up, too many big guys setting on syrup from last year. Just my opinion.

Mark 220 Maple

[mtnmeadowmplfarm]

Seems like some of you pay an awful lot for your taps. I would hate to pay a buck a tap for a lease. There are too many other costs in this business to be paying that much. One of my leases (3000 taps) is set at $.40 per tap with an appreciation schedule written in the lease, wont see $.50 per tap till 2030.

I think using the $.60 range is a good place to start. That is what I offer when discussing new leases now.

Here's the argument I use when negotiating leases: Avg hardwood stand(70 taps/acre), managed for timber production yields an average of $20/ yr per acre in revenue to landowner. Same chunk of land in tap lease for $.60 yields $42/ acre per year. Plus, much of the timber value is retained, lets say 60% to be conservative, thats $12/ acre. So thats $54/ acre per year with a tap lease as opposed to $20. Pitch it to them like that and bring em a little syrup, that works best for me.

[Amber Gold]

$20/ac/yr for timber. That's nothing...seems like it should be higher than that. Where I am, you're lucky to find a stand of maples worthy enough of putting tubing and vac. to it...not a lot of maples, and a lot of property's been subdivided. In my opinion, it's worthwhile paying a little more to keep the property owners happy and in a longterm lease. We also have high property taxes around here...not cheap.

[lew]

mtnmeadowmaple,
How did you come up with $20/ acre per year for log production.\? That is an interesting number and would like to use it, but want to be able to answer how I came up with it.
I too feel that rental payments have are way too high. Bulk prices have finally crawled past what they were in the late '80's. We were getting $2.25-$2.50 for light then and paying .25 per tap. Prices plummetted to $1.10 for light (at least that's the lowest I remember) and have finally got back to $2.50+. Last I heard was $2.80 for light, please correct me if I'm wrong. But $2.80 in todays dollar is not as much as $2.50 in the late '80's. I realize everything has gone up, but $1 per tap is way too much.

[maplwrks]

The state of Vt. has opened up land for tapping recently. The formula they use is this: They take 25% of the average price per pound of the top 3 grades of syrup. (bulk price) Let's just say syrup prices average $2.80 per pound for the top 3 grades. 25% of $2.80 is $.70. This is what you would pay per tap. This price per tap could fluctuate year to year, if syrup goes down, so does the rent..etc.... I am proposing this formula with all of my new leases.

[lew]

maplewrks,

That formula would have had some merit to me4 years ago, but after having 3 straight years of making 75% B or darker (due to catepillar stress on the trees) and this year making 40% B or darker due to weather, the formula falls apart because it is depending on grades (therefor prices) of syrup that are out of our control.

[maplwrks]

This what the State of Vt. charges for state land lease. The few guys I know that have these leases are quite pleased with the terms. They think that it is more than reasonable.

[Papa John's Sugar Shack]

I lease 130 acres from the state and I have to say i'm please with how they work the process.

[michiganfarmer2]

People around here are EXTREMELY protective of their saw logs. They all think they are sitting on hundreds of thousand dollar veneer trees. If you dont buy the land, you cant tap it.

Id happily pay a buck a tap for 10 acres close to mine

[PerryW]

I'd pay a buck a tap if they let me use my 1" Death Spouts.