Nortern VT 2012 (Just getting Started)

[gentlemanfarmervt]

Hello Maple World... I am 27 yrs old and live in Northern Champlain Valley of Vermont, way up north...Recently my father and myself purchased 50 acres of possibly 2-3000 taps worth of sugar maples. After a little research and some more talks with the bank I am still wondering where to head with this. I've got roughly $20000 to invest in rig/R.O., collection, and storage. There are many mind blowing possabilities but im interested in some help from the pros. Ive found used equipment such as $5000 RO 600 gph/$1500 3'x8' wood fired rig... I think this is a good start? Maybe vac. and pipe system... any assistance would be appreciated.

[spud]

If $20,000 is what you have to work with then I would just set up the woods for now and sell sap. If you have 3000 taps you will need all of that just for the woods alone.

Spud

[sapman]

I agree. I can't believe how much I've put into my bush for 2200~ taps. Hopefully you'll have enough for a good vacuum pump setup, which is essential. Hope you have power available at the bush, too.

[gentlemanfarmervt]

About how many gallons should i plan on and or how much $ for the sap? Would like to somehow generate enough income to be self sustaining. Is $20000 not enough for small start up? Still, any more assistance is appreciated, thanx

[spud]

About how many gallons should i plan on and or how much $ for the sap? Would like to somehow generate enough income to be self sustaining. Is $20000 not enough for small start up? Still, any more assistance is appreciated, thanx

If you do all the work yourself your woods will cost you about $5-6 dollars per tap. You will then need to buy a vacuum pump, moisture trap, releaser and a sap tank. Your $20,000 should cover the whole set-up if you willing to buy a used tank and pump. On a 2500 tap woods you could get between 15-20+ gallons of sap per tap hole. Sap is easy to sell and the rate in my area is about .50 cents per gallon for 2% sugar. Sap seller's in this area shoot for $10,000 per 1000 taps. What town are you in?

Spud

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

I agree with the others 110%. Set up your woods and do it right with a good vacuum system. If you are inexperienced, get some help with the layout and planning. Most experienced sugar makers are glad to give advice. Once you understand how to do it, you can do the labor yourself but it will take time. You could easily get as much as 20 gallons per tap on a properly functioning system. Check around your area and see if there is a producer or several who are interested in buying the sap. Plan the sugar house, evaporator, RO and other whiz bangs for the long term. You make your money in the woods. If you have some real potential for retail customers immediatly, take some of your pay for the sap in syrup. This will start to create a customer base for when you are making your own. Good Luck.

[PerryW]

you could also buy the used 3x8, tap 1200 taps gravity, get your feet wet, then add more taps, vacuum and steamaway (or RO) when you feel comfortable.

[gentlemanfarmervt]

To the best of my understanding risks are something none of us can afford to chance. With that being said efficiency in our bush would start from the ground up. To extract all possible sap from entire bush will be first approach, i think... After layout there will be no question about how much we are dealing and we'll know where to head next. So what type/size/average price extractor pump should one purchase? A fair used item? Pipeline, mainline, pump, and storage $20000? Should still have enough for used ro?

[oneoldsap]

You have much thinking left to do , for sure . $8.00/Tap would be a realistic number , not $6.00 . as far as setting up your woods goes . If you set up 2,000 taps with good vacuum ( 24" + ) you should get somewhere near your $20,000 back the first year at 20 Gal. sap/tap . At $8.00/Tap you will have $4,000 left to buy a gathering tank , vac. pump and releaser , that's doable if you are a prudent shopper and don't need the latest greatest new things ! I can help you locate some good used equipment , in fact I know where there's a releaser for sale now . It's a double vertical , mechanical LaPierre ! Feel free to PM , always ready to help out a fellow sugarmaker !

[KZecher]

if your interested in tubing its cheaper through FW Webb your money may go a little farther for the same quality. good luck to ya

[spud]

I just set up my 5000 tap woods last summer at $5.00 per tap. I used 1 1/2 inch wet/dry and all 1 inch mains in the woods. I bought all my mainline through Webbs. I average 4.5 taps per lateral. If I can set it up for $5.00 a tap so can you. Shop around and price out each item from each dealer and it will save you money. It's sad to say but if you stay loyal to just one dealer you may wind up spending more for the overall set-up.

Spud

[gentlemanfarmervt]

Thanx alot everyone looks like im still at the drawing board...

[PerryW]

About how many gallons should i plan on and or how much $ for the sap? Would like to somehow generate enough income to be self sustaining. Is $20000 not enough for small start up? Still, any more assistance is appreciated, thanx

here's the tightwad approach:

1) Get a local logger with a small operation work up a simple management plan to thin out your sugarbush. Plan on him dragging out 15 or 20 cord of sugarwood and leaving the pile next to the sugarhouse.

2) Buy a used Stainless Steel 5x14, which are real reasonable right now. You will burn lots of wood, but it is essentially a waste product from managing your woods.

3) Build a sugarhouse on blocks with a hemlock floor (no expensive concrete and sitework) using roughcut and your own labor, should be only $2000.

4) Tap the whole 2000 taps with used tubing, which you can get for free. Don't laugh, people are replacing tubing that is only 10 year old, and much of mine was bought used 20+ years ago. You can use as much new tubing as you can afford, or at least new mainlines (and new spouts & drops)

5) Start looking for reasonably priced stainless milk tanks for sap.

[PerryW]

here's the tightwad approach:

1) Get a local logger with a small operation work up a simple management plan to thin out your sugarbush. Plan on him annually dragging out 15 or 20 cord of sugarwood annually and leaving the pile next to the sugarhouse.

2) Buy a used Stainless Steel 5x14, which are real reasonable right now. You will burn lots of wood, but it is essentially a waste product from managing your woods.

3) Build a sugarhouse on blocks with a hemlock floor (no expensive concrete and sitework) using roughcut and your own labor, should be only $2000.

4) Tap the whole 2000 taps with used tubing, which you can get for free. Don't laugh, people are replacing tubing that is only 10 year old, and much of mine was bought used 20+ years ago. You can use as much new tubing as you can afford, or at least new mainlines (and new spouts & drops). Tap the bush for vacuum if you want to maximize you trees, but you can still be self sustaining w/o vacuum,
5) Start looking for reasonably priced stainless milk tanks for sap.

[gentlemanfarmervt]

If anyone out there in northern vt has used equipment I'm interested. Looking to start 2-3000 tap vac. Sys. And am enthusiastic about obtaining pretty much everything I need used if possible? Anyone with tubing, tanks, extractor, pumps, etc. Mostly interested in sap extraction and storage boiling is for the future at this point. Truly I am unsure how exactly to set this up. Thanks all.

[PerryW]

Glad this thread popped back up so I could find it. Can't answer your recent question, but wanted to say.....

I would say your first priority would be to get a forester in there who knows sugaring or possibly another experienced sugarmaker & a local logger. You can start yourself by flagging up all the sugar maples and getting a count.

The big mistake I made was not thinning out my bush before installing tubing. You will most likely need a lot done to release the sugar maples. You may also be able to generate some income from stumpage of (other non-sugar maple species) and use this toward equipment.

[michiganfarmer2]

Hello Maple World... I am 27 yrs old and live in Northern Champlain Valley of Vermont, way up north...Recently my father and myself purchased 50 acres of possibly 2-3000 taps worth of sugar maples. After a little research and some more talks with the bank I am still wondering where to head with this. I've got roughly $20000 to invest in rig/R.O., collection, and storage. There are many mind blowing possabilities but im interested in some help from the pros. Ive found used equipment such as $5000 RO 600 gph/$1500 3'x8' wood fired rig... I think this is a good start? Maybe vac. and pipe system... any assistance would be appreciated.50 ACRES!!??? OMG Im drooling. Buy the RO, BUy the 3 x 8, Buy Tubing. Get the tubing up off hte ground, tight, flat and sloped. Use gravity the first year. Take the profit and buy vacuum for the next year. Dont even spend any money ona buildiing. Put the RO in your house. Put the evaporator in the garage, or under a lean to.