Mainline Questions...Preparing for next year already!

[daileytapper]

I have been looking and looking, but have come up empty handed. When they state 1/2 or 3/4 inch mainline, is this the ID or OD dimension? Trying to figure if 1/2" will be sufficient or go with 3/4" next year to start pipelining the bush. I will have three main runs to the sugar shack all gravity, all have around 20-23% grade. I have read that 5/16" tubing can handle 5 taps on vaccuum run, but 50 on gravity. When I search for 1/2" mainline prices, it says 1/2" is good for 50 taps? Would this be vaccuum rated? If so, any idea what gravity rating would be at my slope? Here is a Google Earth image of proposed lines. Any input would be appreciated.


http://i1248.photobucket.com/albums/hh487/daileytapper/sugar_bush.jpg

[Vermont Creation Hardwood]

This year I went to 1/2 mainline with 65 on one, 30 on another, and 25 on another. The last run didn't use 1/4 of the capacity of the 1/2 inch with 65 taps. I think you could easily run 150 on 1/2" All mine are gravity.

[TwinBay]

Hey there VCH;
I am building a dump station atop of a 80' hill.
My 1/2" line has a 5 gallon bucket tied into it at one end that will receive the hand bombed buckets and a 55 gallon drum at the bottom of the hill.
Total run is 250'.
Think that will flow thru??

[PerryW]

pipe is always measured as ID.

Vacuum is 5-10 taps per lateral
50 sounds like too many for a gravity 5/16 lateral except under certain circumstances. I would use 25 taps per lateral a typical maximum for gravity.

I'm guessing the 1/2 Mainline - 50 taps number is a vacuum number. It would handle probably 200 on gravity.

How many taps total?

Sounds nice and steep.

[spencer11]

1/2" should work and i have heard of as much as 60 taps on a 5/16" gravity line. it really depends on how you set it up and how your trees are setup. i would say got up to 30-35.

spencer

[daileytapper]

Thanks so much. I thought maybe it would be ID, but could never find any specs. When I bought the pipe, the guy told me it was 3/4, but when I got 3/4 fittings, they didn't fit. That's where the confusion came in because it is 3/4 OD and 1/2 ID. I'm not sure how many taps I will have for next year. I'm going to map out the bush this summer with my GPS to get a total count. I have about 150 taps now for pipeline, but I will need more for the entire bush. I thought of using the 1/2" mainline towards the top of the runs, then using 3/4" at the bottom and 1" from where the three will combine and shoot to the sugar shack. Sound reasonable?

[mapleack]

Dailey, I'd recommend straight to 3/4' pipe because you can't get maple fittings for 1/2 that work well. You should be good for 300+ total on 3/4. If your woods are mostly mature maple you'll be looking at 60 to 80 taps per acre or more. If you're addicted to making syrup like me you'll want vacuum in a year or two so go with bigger pipe. One question is how are you going to get the mainline across the wellroad I see in the google picture?

[maplwrks]

Andy is correct---save yourself some headaches and go to 3/4" I am running 500 on vacuum(wet line) and I am having no problems, the line is nice and full coming off the hill. The biggest thing, is like Andy said, is having maple fittings that fit!

[daileytapper]

The only road the gas company uses & can use is the lower one of the two roads. The upper road is ours so the lines wouldn't have to be very high, 12' or so. What I was thinking on crossing the well road, was if I stay on the lower side of the road, closer to the main road and keep my line up in the trees, by time they reach the shack, they should be 25+ft above the road. National Electrical Code states that electric lines must be 18 feet above any road that would have truck traffic. With this said, I think if I am that high, anything should be able to fit underneath even a drilling rig. I was going to go with the 1/2" for now because, #1. I already have it and it was a steal and #2. I dont' see any vacuum in the near or far future. Just out of curiousity, what would some advantages be of using vacuum on a system so steep? Thanks

[PerryW]

You might be able to go lower then 18'. The electrical service wires have to be 18' above the crown of the road, but I think the telephone wires can be below that. Most overpasses are also much lower than 18'.

RE Vacuum: I always just used gravity tubing but.....The vacuum guys say that high vacuum will essentially double your annual yield. A steep sugarbush will generate some natural vacuum but, only in the laterals and only when the sap gets running good. Natural vacuum may increase your yield a little but probably not more than a few percent.

[spencer11]

how are you going to get a line with sap 18+ feet in the air? im confused about how you would do that and have laterals still running to it?

spencer

[daileytapper]

Spencer,
The line that would be 18+ ft in the air would only be a line running to the shack from the junction of my two mainlines up on the hill and would not have laterals at this point. In the Google Earth image on the original post, the pink line would be the high line.

Perry,
You probably are right, but I'd rather be safe than sorry too. This gas company would rather run the line down than ask me to move it! We are always fighting with them for leaving our gates open. As for vacuum, I just don't know. If I was going to get as much sap/syrup as possible to sell, then maybe, but for now i'm just boiling for family. Getting inspected would be a pain i'm afraid. Gas company hasn't really left our water all that desirable. Hasn't killed us after 30+ years, but you know how red tape is.

[spencer11]

okay that makes sence now. i have wondered about going over my road to tap across the street. would i be ablt to go across a town road?

spencer

[daileytapper]

Spencer,
Not sure on that one. I'd talk to your township supervisor or borough manager if in town to see. You can always use a culvert to run it under the road. Remove it during the summer months and I wouldn't see a problem with it.

John

[smokeyamber]

Hey there VCH;
I am building a dump station atop of a 80' hill.
My 1/2" line has a 5 gallon bucket tied into it at one end that will receive the hand bombed buckets and a 55 gallon drum at the bottom of the hill.
Total run is 250'.
Think that will flow thru??

I have a similar run, I used 3/4 and it empties a bucket in maybe a minute.... drains great. 3/4 was my choice cause the 3/4 water pipe is easy to find fittings for and cheap. I would think 1/2 would flow fine since you likely won't be dumping all that fast... I know I don't. Sure is nice though not hauling the buckets down the hill this year !!! :mrgreen:

[spencer11]

i was thinking of doing the culvert thing bud thee isnt a culvert across from my property but i will check with my town.

spencer

[TwinBay]

Hey Smokey;
I spoke with a few HVAC buddies and they predict 1/2 no problem.
They actually suggested adding a vent behind the dump tank to allow air in as fast as possible.
Saturday or Sunday will be the test.
hand bombed 45 gallons in mushy snow in snowshoes for the last time hopefully
Thanks