Finishing Syrup Question...

[DonMcJr]

Ok I've done 2 Batches now and I have a question. The last batch I had boiling on the stove with a digital candy thermometer. I watched as the temp climbed to 213...214...then at 218 it stayed there quite awhile. It started boiling foamy and the foam started to rise then it hit 219 and I removed it and tested it with the hydrometer and it tested right on.

Yet it seems thin a bit after it cools. So the questions...

1. Can you boil it longer at 219 if you lower the heat and not risk buring it to make it thicker?

2. If you can boil it longer without burning does that make the Syrup darker or is the shade from the sap and sugar content of it?

Thanks in advance being a Newbie I may have some basic questions and I have read alot about making Maple Syrup and don't see too much on the finishing process...

[happy thoughts]

You can boil it thicker but you'll likely end up with crystallized sugar in the bottom of the container, especially on long storage or if kept cold. It can look like rock crystal candy. It tastes good but is a little hard to get out of those narrow neck syrup bottles:o

Syrup density standards are chosen for a reason. Under dense and you risk spoilage, over dense and you get sugar crystals.

[Cake O' Maple]

Ditto what Happy Thoughts said.

You're used to the viscosity of fake syrups--I was, too.

My first year I boiled down about a cup to the thickness I wanted, then was "treasuring" it. By the time I decided to use it, it was half full of rock sugar. Fortunately for me, it was in a wide-mouth halfpint jar. Hard to eat those huge crystals (it was waaaay over), but they tasted good.

But be careful getting them out. My dad got a little impatient one year and broke the jar trying to loosen it with a knife. Go slowly if stuck tight.

[John c]

Since I've been using a hydrometer I have been finishing my syrup without ever going over 211/212 degrees! Making syrup is about evaporation of the water, not temp. Yes it takes a bit longer, but I like the end results much better! When you use the 86 rule and you become familiar with your equipment, you begin to get a good feel for what's happening and when it's gonna happen.

Would you rather have a turkey slow cooked in the crock pot or cooked fast with a flame thrower?

[DonMcJr]

Thanks everyone! Another question...The Hydrometer... How to you keep it to temp when using it? Do you leave it right in the pot of syrup?

[John c]

Good question! For me...I always use the same pot to finish in and since I use the 86 rule I always boil down enough sap to make a gallon of syrup accordingly. The pot I use accommodates my hydrometer cup perfectly, so when I'm ready to check I just fill the cup and let it just stand right in the pot and test. If its not done I remove the cup, clean it in warm water, dry and get ready to test again.
When batch boiling it is important to use equipment that works beyond one purpose. It's kinda like pieces of a puzzle, all of the sides serve a purpose! If you get that figured out you will have more quality syrup than you could have imagined.

[DonMcJr]

Ok that makes more sense to leave it stand in the pot...and I can do that I just didn't think about it after 13+ hours boiling...LOL!

[sugarwoodacres]

Try to go back to eating " fake 3% aunt jemima" now . Its horrible . Thinner and sweeter is what make . However much it winds up to be , you can enjoy it!

[wnybassman]

It always seems to be thin looking in glass bottles than we think it should. If it checks OK with the hydro then you're good to go.

[Randav]

I finished in a 3 gallon stock pot on my kitchen stove. I placed the hydro cup in the pot to check my density and it worked great. As I was pouring the last of my syrup out of the pan, I noticed a perfect circle of schorched sugar from the hydro cup on the bottom of the pan. The cup wasn't sitting there more than, maybe, 20-30 seconds. Just enough time to fill the cup and place the hydro to check the reading. The syrup tastes fine, just very scary of how close I came to ruining that sweet stuff!

[Dennis H.]

To get the most bang for your buck so to speak, use the hydrometer for final density check.
If you make it to heavy you will be only cheating yourself out of maple syrup.

Look around and you will find a Temp compensation chart, very handy. Use that so you can check the density at any temp.
I use it alot, As I am warming up the syrup to get ready for filtering I will adjust the density. So when I get it at 185 degrees it is the correct density and ready for filtering and bottling.

[DonMcJr]

Very good info thanks everyone! I found the charts I believe and will share them again incase anyone reading this is wondering about them...

5579

http://www.duffyslanemaple.ca/Making-syrup/Temp-Brix.pdf

Also I have a Video Request... Someone who understands the Hydrometer and is a "Pro" at making syrup can you video tape yourself doing the process for us to watch?

[wnybassman]

Very good info thanks everyone! I found the charts I believe and will share them again incase anyone reading this is wondering about them...

5579

http://www.duffyslanemaple.ca/Making-syrup/Temp-Brix.pdf

I ladle mine into a stainless brief case thermos with a funnel, twice. First time to warm the thermos and second time for the actual checking. I can never quite hit 211º in the thermos (the hot temp line of my hydrometer) but usually 209º or 210º. According to that chart I guess it is close enough.

Also I have a Video Request... Someone who understands the Hydrometer and is a "Pro" at making syrup can you video tape yourself doing the process for us to watch?


I ladle mine into a stainless brief case thermos with a funnel, twice. First time to warm the thermos and second time for the actual checking. I can never quite hit 211º in the thermos (the hot temp line of my hydrometer) but usually 209º or 210º. According to that chart I guess it is close enough.

[3fires]

...
Also I have a Video Request... Someone who understands the Hydrometer and is a "Pro" at making syrup can you video tape yourself doing the process for us to watch?

I'm not a pro, but I did a vid on the sap hydrometer use. For me, testing the density was at that critical moment, so I wasn't interested in trying to mess around with the video and risk burning or boiling over my hard work. Besides when I reached that point it was usually dark as can be out, camera doesn't like dark.

Honestly though, I didn't pay much attention to the numbers and just made sure the red line was slightly above the level of syrup in the cup. It must have worked because a year later my syrup is still crystal free and not moldy.

I used the conversion chart one time at finishing because I went over and made it too dense. The chart was nice for getting it back to the right density.

[DonMcJr]

Ok I guess my main concern is buring the Syrup while trying to get it thicker up to the red line...

So I was using an electric stove like I think you used 3fires. I watched your video last week and I think I remember you turning your burner knob from 8 to 5-6 when it started foaming.

Now my question is if the syrup is at 218 F and jumping up to 219F and back down to 218 F and it starts to foam and raise up do I just turn my stove burner to like 4 and the foam goes down and the heat will still eventually rise and not burn it?

I hope that made sense.

[happy thoughts]

Now my question is if the syrup is at 218 F and jumping up to 219F and back down to 218 F and it starts to foam and raise up do I just turn my stove burner to like 4 and the foam goes down and the heat will still eventually rise and not burn it?

I hope that made sense.

Yes, it made sense and definitely turn it down.

Now I hope I say the following so it makes sense to you:) ...... The temp of your sweet stuff will go up not just because of the pan heat but because enough water has boiled off to cause the boiling point of the concentrated sugar solution to increase. You can't boil water any hotter than 212F (at standard pressure). That is not the case with anything like sugar in solution. The concentration of the sugar in your syrup is what causes the temp increases that you'll see.

[DonMcJr]

Yes, it made sense and definitely turn it down.

Now I hope I say the following so it makes sense to you:) ...... The temp of your sweet stuff will go up not just because of the pan heat but because enough water has boiled off to cause the boiling point of the concentrated sugar solution to increase. You can't boil water any hotter than 212F (at standard pressure). That is not the case with anything like sugar in solution. The concentration of the sugar in your syrup is what causes the temp increases that you'll see.

Makes perfect sense and is exactly what I needed to hear... the downside is after 12 hours of boiling it's gonna take me longer to make syrup the right way without burning...

So... If you need to learn to relax and be paient and perfect something to get liquid gold then start making Maple Syrup!

It's definately not for someone who wants to hurry up and get it done!

I love it!:lol:

[PerryW]

As far as I know, there is no way to burn maple syrup on a kitchen stove as longs as you don't go waaaay past syrup. You use the maximum heat you can without it boiling over.

I remember as a kid, standing next to the electric stove switching the burner from medium to medium-high and watching the foam slowly rise. Then back to medium and the foam would slowly go down. Then back to med-high .....

There are really only two things you can do wrong at this stage.

1) Boil it over and make a mess.

2) GO past syrup and make candy by mistake.

[happy thoughts]

As far as I know, there is no way to burn maple syrup on a kitchen stove as longs as you don't go waaaay past syrup. You use the maximum heat you can without it boiling over.

I remember as a kid, standing next to the electric stove switching the burner from medium to medium-high and watching the foam slowly rise. Then back to medium and the foam would slowly go down. Then back to med-high .....

There are really only two things you can do wrong at this stage.

1) Boil it over and make a mess.

2) GO past syrup and make candy by mistake.

Point 1 is why I'd turn it down if it's looking close to boil over and especially if a finishing pan is overfull. Personally, I like to keep mine under half full at close to syrup stage. Even something like a little too much niter in the pan can cause a very rapid boil over. So some judgement calls need to be made each time.

Not trying to butt heads with you perry but that said, boiling fast and hard does exactly what? To my mind it just speeds up the evaporation process. There's no real reason I see for it other than saving time and maybe to help the sugars carmelize if you like darker syrups. There's someone that posted in another thread yesterday that uses a hydrometer and lower cooking temp. He says he never brings the sap past 211F. If you think about it, there's no reason why syrup can't be made that way if you're using a hydrometer and are checking for density.

Making syrup really only boils down to how much water has evaporated off in relation to the sugar concentration of your sap. I guess my short point is that the high fast temps used by most sugarers imho have more to do with time factors than anything else. If it was cost effective, you could probably make syrup just with RO.

I believe that long slow evaporation can produce some nice looking and good tasting syrup, too, as many who've "boiled" off on a wood stove used for home heat through slow evaporation can show you. If I get a chance I'll throw up a pic of the very light syrup I made almost entirely in my crockpot this year. It doesn't have the strong carmelized flavor of dark syrup that many prefer. But it has a nice delicate flavor of it's own just the same.

just sayin' There are often many means to the same end :)

[PerryW]

Conventional wisdom is that the faster the boiling rate, the lighter the color of syrup. Since lighter syrup is worth more per pound, most of us try to boil fast. Plus, as mentioned, time is also money. Just for the record, I don't think there should be any caramalization flavor in syrup, especially fancy syrup. I believe it is considered an off-flavor.

Conversely, slowly boiling the syrup (especially at densities near-syrup) will create darker, more mapely syrup. In fact, there was a process (in the 1960's) to take syrup, boil it slowly to enhance the flavor, then add cane sugar to create a hybrid product that was cheaper than pure maple syrup, but had the same taste.

Re making syrup with RO: The maple flavor actually comes from the Browning Reaction so if your freeze-dry sap, (or could RO sap to that density) it has no maple flavor and is clear, like corn syrup.

Personally, I also prefer fancy and medium syrup, though many of my customers say just the opposite. (Of course, the customer is always right)

[wnybassman]

It's definately not for someone who wants to hurry up and get it done!



Absolutely not!

I finish on the stove too and it ain't for the impatient type. The last few points on the brix scale you can't do ANYTHING but stand there and watch the foam rise, turn down the heat, turn the heat back up, watch the foam rise, turn it back down. Often times I will check it about 10 times with the hydrometer before it is done. I boiled over slightly for the first time ever the other day, and that's cause I stuck my head around the corner for a few seconds to hear what my wife had to say about work that day. Man, does it go fast! I wouldn't be concerned at all about burning the syrup at this stage, because it takes so long to get it up to syrup in the first place and you'll be right there checking it often anyway

[TunbridgeDave]

One thing to remember that no one has mentioned is the effect the weather has on the boiling point of syrup. The hydrometer is the only constant in the universe! I don't even worry about calibrating the thermometers on the evaporator. The hydrometer tells me at what temp to draw off at on any particular day. It can even change during the day if a low or high pressure system is moving through the area.

Here is a little tip to keep your pots from boiling over. Use a few drops of heavy cream or a tiny dab of butter and that will calm things down.

[prattsap]

I am batch boiling on the backyard rig. Boil enough sap down to roughly a gallon of syrup at 214 then filter and store till I have 3 gallons ready to finish on kitchen stove, about 9 hrs. After the filtering of mixed batches is reheated to the 218 I noticed that it only takes a quarter of the time as the unfiltered on the evaporator but the syrup doesn't seem to have the dripping "apron" effect. So I kept on boiling to get the "apron" on the stove but never showed. At 222 I shut her down, filtered, and jarred. She's a thick one. Does the apron drip test not work after filtering to finish? should I stick to the temp or try something new?

[wnybassman]

should I stick to the temp or try something new?

Try a hydrometer. There is never a doubt.