Mainline supports

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Just curious what is recommended for long runs of mainline about 25' in the air?? I was glancing at the old tubing guide I got from Bascoms a few years ago and they recommended 5/16" steel cable. Is this better than 9 gauge wire?? They state it hardly needs any support and will hardly sag or stretch any?? I may have to run a couple of long stretches 15 to 25' above the ground and would like to be able to not have to support them. Slope should be at least 4%.

Is 1/4" cable big enough for 3/4" mainline that would be used only to pump thru and wouldn't have sap in it but a few minutes @ day??

[maplehound]

Brandon,
I had a long span over a deep raven. I stil used my wire and was able to add side ties to a nearby tree. It was very ard to get them tight but we used ratchet straps to pull it tight till we got a side wire on it. We also used ratchiting wire pulls on the end tree so we could pull it tight. We never did get all the sag out though but did get most of it.
To get it as empty as possible we went to the high spot of the pump line and put in a "T" fitting with a check valve on the "T". This would close under pressure and open to let air in to set up a siphon effect to empty the line. Won't say it drained it totally but it sure helped. Aslo we would (befoe a cold spell) vaccumme the line back to the woods to clear out what was left. This reguied a valve put on after the check valve to close it off so the vaccuume would work. (this is probably as clear as mud ) I hope this helps.
Ron

[sweetwoodmaple]

In the end, if your sag still has enough slope, it should drain. I use the sight level from the middle of my lines to make sure they will drain.

Brandon - If you figure a 12" sag, do you have enough slope to add this to your 4%? Also, you may want to add a few more inches into the calculation to compensate for the weight of the sap.

Stranded steel cable definately allows you to get the line tighter and will sag less. You may want to bite the bullet and go this way. Or, you could run two 9 gage wires top and bottom about 2' apart. You could then use thin wire to tie the two lines together every 6' or so the lower line that has the main line attached will have more support. If you have a sag, just shorten the connection wire to compensate. In the end, the upper line takes the load which allows the lower line to be straight. The suspension bridge idea! :D

You may want to do some research on high tension electrical wires, they may have more information about weight, sag and size of support wires vs. span.

Brian

[ennismaple]

Electrical wire (ACSR) doesn't work as well as 1/4" guy steel. The ACSR (aluminum conductor, steel reinforced) stretches more since the aluminum is not as strong and there's only a single strand of steel in the middle.

We use 1/4" guy steel exclusively and are able to get almost all the sag out of the wire and mainline. We use a come-along to tension the steel and pre-forms to tie it off at each end. It's more expensive than the single strand #9 but much more durable. We've had trees go down over the mainline that didn't break anything - as soon as we cut the tree off it would bounce back up.

You may want to support your mainline in the middle with a post cut from your bush (cedar works well). Where the mainline is lower, we support it with fence post T-bars.

Hope this helps.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Is 1/4" guy wire the same as steel cable that is woven together?? I have one run of about 450 feet high in the air and would like to get away with only 1 or 2 supports. I can put in a couple of 4x4 treated posts if nothing else and put a 2x4 on the side of the post to give me 8' of support at the posts.

More help?? :lol: :lol:

[brookledge]

Brandon
When you say 450' in the air do you mean 450 linear feet that you want to suspend? And if you want to do it with only 1 or 2 supports in the middle then you are looking at needing cable for sure. Basicly like the utility companies would do. Most of the time poles around my area are 150' apart. Will you have any posibilities of anything falling on it? If is out in the open or unlikely that anything will fall on it then you could get away with less tensile strength. How high will the span be out in the middle? If you can put in 4X4s like you said out in the middle that will drastically reduce the sag and pull on the cable. Another thing you can do is put in supports for sugaring season and take them out afterwards if they are in your way. Once the mainline is empty and not being used alot of the weight will be gone.
I have a section of 3/4" mainline that is suspended about 12.5 feet over my driveway that I leave up year round and have no problem with it. My longest span is about 75' and even though it is good and tight youcan still see the sag in it.
Keith

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Keith,

It is completely in open with a large tree on each end to pull with a comealong. I am considering doing this instead of running the pipe underground. It is only going to be to pump from my tanks in the woods to the road with no sap staying in it other than when I am pumping. :)

[brookledge]

Then can you raise the beginning up alittle more so that you get a good slope then the main will totally drain out. If this is going to be a pumped line I would put in a larger diameter pipe unless you only have a small pump. Plan on a little friction loss
Keith

[ennismaple]

Guy steel has multiple, wound strands - I think 7 strands for 1/4". 450 feet unsupported sounds too long to me unless you have quite a bit of fall. If you calculate the weight of the steel, pipeline and sap it works out to a pretty significant load.

We tend to support our mainlines with posts (T-bars where possible) about every 50-75 feet to keep a constant fall. Given this isn't a minaline you could proably get away with 3 or 4 posts between the 2 ends. It's really a judgement call. You may also want to consider how far up the tree you are attaching the steel. If you're too far up the steel could snap when the tree sways in a wind storm.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

You guys that use cable, what size do you use or what would you recommend for a 450' span with about 3 supports?? I was thinking about using 1/4" until I look at it and it looks huge. 8O It would be 3/4" pipe and would only have sap in it a few minutes every couple of days when I pumped the sap thru it??

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I think I found a couple thousand feet of # 2 electric service cable that I can get that is being taken out of service. I will be running one stretch about 500+ feet, so I will put it up and go from there on supports as needed. The cable is mainly alumium with steel in it also and I know it is extremely strong and they run stretches with in between power poles of 500+ feet. With a 14 to 17 foot drop over the 500', it will help a lot in eliminating some supports. :)

[brookledge]

All you will need is the steel cable. Remove the aluminum conductors as they will only add weight and won't help you. The al wire is only wrapped around the steel cable and that is what they use to hold it up.
Keith

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Keith,

Sorry to be stupid, but what do you mean by al wire?? :oops:

[brookledge]

Aluminum.
If what you are getting is like what I'm thinking it is then you will have a steel cable with two or three aluminum wires wrapped around it. The aluminum wire will not give you any more strength it will only add weight.
Keith