Plastic Spout Questions

[Richard Gress]

I tapped in two weeks ago in seacoast NH. This is the first season that I used 5/16 plastic spouts (Bought on line-Maple Guys) with about 20 on gravity lines and 30 in buckets. My mistake was using a 5/16 drill bit and going in 1 1/2 inches (rather than what seems to be the standard 19/64 hole, 2" deep). I think Im bottoming out as some of the spouts are leaking around the edges, down the trunk. Can't imagine that I'm splitting the trees as I'm not driving beyound the notorious audible "clunk" sound. Anyone think it's worth retapping for 2" depth with the same 5/16 bit?

[happy thoughts]

It sounds like maybe your hole wasn't perfectly round. Redrilling wouldn't gain you anything imho. You're still going to have a slightly off hole.

[jmayerl]

I may have something wrong here, but I thought a 5/16 bit was for a 5/16 spout? Am I wrong?

[RipTyd]

I use a 5/16 bit for the plastic taps and drill approx 2inches deep and tap them in with a soft plastic mallet. If it was me I would definatly try to redrill deeper if there is leakage , and make sure to seat the tap. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

[PerryW]

I also use a 5/16" bit for my 5/16 taps. I drill about 2" deep and twist them in by hand (no hammer).

[Richard Gress]

What does "seat the tap" mean? I see many posts where folks drill with 19/64. Slightly smaller. I guess one benifit is, if you have to redrill, because you have a slightly elliptical hole (as Im apparently in the process of discovering) or you started too early in the season and things are drying up, you can make corrections with the 5/16th. Thanks for the replies!

[Dill]

I use a hammer to seat the tap. The thunk is when its in all the way. I'm going with the holes aren't round. The tree should seal up around the tap. How bad is the leak?

[Richard Gress]

****, I went around to 10 trees and drilled down to 2". Nearly every one has gotten worse. It's a constant drip, but some is going through the spouts. It's great news that the outside should seal up. I'm using the ES1 spouts from Maple guys and they are in deep enough so only about 1/2" of the stem is exposed. What concerns me is, looking at the spout stem, the completely circular part of the stem ends about half way from the tip. From that point toward the base, are 4 lines molded into the spout (evidently to provide strength). Looks like this would provide small channels for leakage. Think this will seal up in a couple days? Thanks for the info.

[oneoldsap]

Sounds to me like you are splitting the bark , and 1 1/2" is plenty deep enough for any spout . I think you overdrove your spouts , and your production will be about half what it should be . Live and learn . Tapping really needs to be done right , as the whole season depends on it . I'm not sold on small spouts for gravity systems either , or buckets for that matter . The 7/16 spout will outproduce the 5/16 spout in both applications ! There are a lot of fairly new sugarmakers out there with no experience with the old spouts . Since most bushes have vacuum systems , the preponderence of equipment is geared toward vacuum setups . Using equipment meant for vac , on gravity , will hurt production . I've seen threads on here where guys are using checkvalve spouts on gravity systems . Which makes no sence to me at all , why pay 10 or 12 cents more per spout for something that's going to work against you ?

[Murphy's Law]

I don't want to hijack this thread but I have to tell you of my experience this season.

I use barbed plastic water pipe couplings for my taps. $0.16 each. The kind made to be used with flexible plastic water lines from the underground meter to the house. I use 3/8" size witch is actually 7/16" O.D and 5/16" I.D. and about 3" long. I used a 7/16" drill bit and the tap fits very snugly into the hole. No leaks in three weeks. I also use 5/16" O.D. clear plastic flexible tubing from the tap down to the buckets. It has been working very well for me so far. 70 gallons from 11 trees.

I also have a few experimental taps where I use only the 5/16" plastic tubing. I drilled a 5/16" hole 2 1/2" to 3" deep in the trees and shoved the 5/16" tubing into the hole about 1 1/2" to 2". Working great - no leaks so far. But I do see some slight moisture around the holes on the bark.

Am I doing anything wrong?

[happy thoughts]

..... Think this will seal up in a couple days?

I doubt it, at least from my own short experience. A leaky tap is pretty much going to leak to some extent until the sap stops flowing.

[happy thoughts]

I don't want to hijack this thread but I have to tell you of my experience this season.

I also have a few experimental taps where I use only the 5/16" plastic tubing. I drilled a 5/16" hole 2 1/2" to 3" deep in the trees and shoved the 5/16" tubing into the hole about 1 1/2" to 2". Working great - no leaks so far. But I do see some slight moisture around the holes on the bark.

Am I doing anything wrong?

If it's working, don't look for problems:) That said, the slight moisture you're seeing sounds like some slight leaking to me. Probably because the tubing isn't tapered so doesn't seat as well as a tap would. You might also risk some tubing pull out from critters. IMHO, at 21/2-3" deep I think your holes are drilled too deeply and that may affect your tree health in the long run. A bigger wound means more time to heal and a greater and deeper area for bacteria, etc to penetrate. Just something to consider. Sounds like you're off to a good start though. Good luck this season:)

[Richard Gress]

I might like to try the plastic water pipe couple in place of one or two spouts to see if I can bandage up things a bit. Are these hardware store accessable? First I need a better understanding of the dynamics of "splitting the bark". Specifically, what is "splitting the bark"? I am guessing that the pressure splits the sap wood longitudinally at the top and bottom of the over driven spout. Or, does this have more to do with the bark/sapwood interface? Is drilling a bigger hole (7/16) over the existing one and replacing with a larger spout a solution or should I "bite my lip" and "live and learn". Incidently I just found a very similar spout on "Leader" site. The specifically call for 1&1/2 in depth and advise not driving the spout further than 5/8" in. Thanks ALL!

[sugar ED]

I might like to try the plastic water pipe couple in place of one or two spouts to see if I can bandage up things a bit. Are these hardware store accessable? First I need a better understanding of the dynamics of "splitting the bark". Specifically, what is "splitting the bark"? I am guessing that the pressure splits the sap wood longitudinally at the top and bottom of the over driven spout. Or, does this have more to do with the bark/sapwood interface? Is drilling a bigger hole (7/16) over the existing one and replacing with a larger spout a solution or should I "bite my lip" and "live and learn". Incidently I just found a very similar spout on "Leader" site. The specifically call for 1&1/2 in depth and advise not driving the spout further than 5/8" in. Thanks ALL!
Hi Richard ,u asked "what is "splitting the bark"? I am guessing that the pressure splits the sap wood longitudinally at the top and bottom of the over driven spout." Right - Like useing the tap as a wege ! Only tap lightly ,on tap untill the sound changes to a thud (as to just seat /seal the tap ),Are u useing a sharp tree tap bit/drill ,or atleast a sharp wood bit? Maybe if so than when u start to drill go real slow speed and stay steady (let the bit do the work /don't push hard ) need a good clean cut hole to seat tap ! P.S. most retapped hole only leak worst (if not on vac.) don't mess with it . Just my two cents ,hope it helps ,good luck ,Ed

[happy thoughts]

Is drilling a bigger hole (7/16) over the existing one and replacing with a larger spout a solution or should I "bite my lip" and "live and learn".

I think there's a natural tendency when just starting out to want to fool with the taps a lot. I know I did and I see it in the posts of lots of the first time tappers here. That said, I'd say try to resist temptation and just bite the bullet. You'll get better as you continue with this very rewarding hobby and from time to time you'll still get leakers. Your last band aid didn't work so well, and if you've already split the wood around the tap, retapping isn't going to help stop the leaking. It may even make it worse.

[Richard Gress]

OK Guys, my New Years resolution; everytime I get the urge to "fiddle" with the spouts, I'll "fiddle" with the ever-evolving evaporator, or filtering system instead. Next time I tap, I'll go with 7/16th, 1.5" depth, and a sharp drill bit, (slow and steady). Genuine thanks!

[happy thoughts]

Good luck Richard:) There's always something new to learn or improve on which is part of the fun of syrup making, at least for me. As long as some sap is going into your bucket you'll still be able to make some good syrup. And next year's will be even better!.