I'm I just too shallow or what??

[Indiana-Jones]

I have a 24X24, 4 channel syrup pan and a plus 7 thermometer, that I scorched pretty good. We were running a long making syrup (had a couple of gallons made)and then it came time to draw some, as the syrup came out the temperature went up. Before I could get some emergency sap, blammo. It seems there was not any sap to pull forward to replace the syrup? We don't have any floats, it is all by eye. I was trying to run 1 inch to 1 and a half deep.

So what I guess I'm asking is what is the best depth to run? Is there a procedure of not firing just before a draw? Should I just try to make near syrup and finish on gas? Pointers please.

After the incident, we tried running deeper and we couldn't get syrup to draw, it looked like we were making syrup slowly in the whole pan. The flue pan started to get a touch of brown color.

[Brent]

You can start with just about any depth you want and it won't have much effect. About an inch is OK.

The stuff hits the fan at the other end of the process. As you get close to finished syrup, the syrup holds more and more bubbles, the bubbles get smaller and the whole mess starts to rise in the pan. So what has now foamed 4" or so up in the pan is obviously not touching the bottom. There's almost nothing left on the bottom to absorb the heat any more and what little is there is likely to get scorched. If you pick that moment to step out to take care of a calling of nature, you can actually set the mess on fire.

Shallower depths will set up a better gradient so you can get a good draw, but boy you sure do need to be vigilant about keeping the fresh sap coming is as the near done syrup starts to foam up.

It's a sort of catch 22. Lots of depth, lots of mixing and poor gradient ... but it's safe. Shallower, minimal mixing, good gradient, high risk.

[Dave Puhl]

your channel where your sap is coming in should be lighter then the others..on my 2x6 I have had it make syrup in the center when the gradient was not working...1-1 1/2" is fine ..with no floats? .... do you have a constant trickle coming in at all times...do you help the gradient get going by taking off alittle at the drawoff side and dump it back in on the sap side....just at the start then it should be good...if your fire is real hot all the time mabe you need to run deeper??....I finish syrup right on the evaperator but you got to watch like a hawk...

[SeanD]

I had the same thing happen last year and I was standing right there. It was so fast and the bubbles and steam made it impossible to see. It was the smell I picked up first and just like you said - bang. Since then, I have run at 1.5" with occasional 1.75" when the boil dies on me, but I aim for the 1.5". I breath a lot easier and I still get a gradient and a good boil in the front pan. It also gives me a little cushion so that if I need to draw quickly, I'm not going to go too shallow too fast.

It's not easy without a float. Sometimes the right combination of wood and air suddenly makes an average boil kick into overdrive. It's hard to regulate the trickle of sap coming in, but I have to say it's getting easier with experience.

I've had a lot more success by cleaning the pan more often, too. A big part of my problem was the sand was building up quickly, leading to more foam. Now I clean out the front pan after every long boil. It's way easier than I thought. I can fire right through the draws, finish on the evap. and the emergency sap sits idle (hopefully).

Sean

[Indiana-Jones]

I'm back, had to run and do a service call.

My pan has 2 and a half inch round holes between the channels, I have saw others with a corner clipped off. I'm wondering if the corners clipped would let more sap flow through better. The round hole only has a very small point that is at the floor level.

We do have a head tank trickling into a pre heater tank and then trickling on in.

I guess I need to try to do a better job of watching the level and see about a float box for next year.

I'm soaking the burn with vinegar and will scrub, Can a guy use muratic acid or any suggestions??

Thanks for the help.

[Dave Puhl]

where the hole is in the divider is it flat and smooth on the bottom of the pan...there should be no lip for the sap/almost syrup to jump over to get to the next channel and against the wall of the pan too??just a thought....

[Indiana-Jones]

The hole is flush with the bottom, but the round hole doesn't have the 2 or so inches of pan bottom for the sap to turn the corner that a clipped corner would.

I just brain storming, tiring to learn something. There is not a lot of guys out here in Indiana to go and see and learn from.

[Tweegs]

One thing I learned at this year’s conference is, that because of the way we build a fire under the pans, sometimes it is possible to get syrup in the center of your pan rather than at your draw port. The fire may be hotter in the center of the pan, or maybe it’s hotter on the sap inlet side…at least, that is, until the gradient gets set up and really going.

I’ve seen this, and I’m sure many an old salt out there has, too. You’re watching the temp nearest your draw side and it reaches that magic +7 degrees. You start the draw and the temp rises. You keep drawing and the temp keeps going up. Finally, you finish with a great big draw. Now, if you happened to panic because the temp was +9 or +10 even, and started to draw faster than the sap could enter the pan…woof!...things are gonna get to stinkin’ in short order.

What we were told made a lot of sense. Use a spatula and check for sheeting in the center of the pan. If the syrup in the center of the pan sheets off the spatula, draw off slowly into a bucket until the syrup at the center of the pan reaches the draw off point. Set that bucket aside and draw off your syrup (that was in the center of the pan). Now add that bucket you set aside slowly back in just ahead of your draw off port.

The advice we were given is small, frequent draws are good. Large, infrequent draws are not so good. An inch to inch and a half in the pan is good. Use a defoamer.

[Starting Small]

Is the inch-inch and half recomendation for all evaporators? I have a flat pan divided into 3 sections. I have been running at 2 inches and have not been able to draw anything off, nor is it close, after boiling 50 gallons. Is it because of the 2 inches? Also, I boiled off those 50 gallons in 2 seperate boils, does that have any effect?

[slammer3364]

HI Sounds like me a few years ago I also have a Hobby evap 18x48. Last nite I boiled down about 40 gals. of sap, I figure I will have to boil down another 50 gal of sap before I can draw off, after that the draws should be pretty regular. We made 18 gal of syrup last year,lots of luck to you. The advice they gave me was be patient,it was rite on.

[Indiana-Jones]

You described what happened to a "T". I really didn't think that I was that shallow, the sap just didn't seem to move from the middle toward the draw off.

The first time I used this set up two weeks ago, I had a couple of quarter size burns at the draw off. So, I was trying to make more smaller pulls. But it just got away from me.

I was using some butter to fight foam, but I don't know the proper way to use a defoamer. I have read here today some people add some at regular intervals, at specific spots.
One thing I learned at this year’s conference is, that because of the way we build a fire under the pans, sometimes it is possible to get syrup in the center of your pan rather than at your draw port. The fire may be hotter in the center of the pan, or maybe it’s hotter on the sap inlet side…at least, that is, until the gradient gets set up and really going.

I’ve seen this, and I’m sure many an old salt out there has, too. You’re watching the temp nearest your draw side and it reaches that magic +7 degrees. You start the draw and the temp rises. You keep drawing and the temp keeps going up. Finally, you finish with a great big draw. Now, if you happened to panic because the temp was +9 or +10 even, and started to draw faster than the sap could enter the pan…woof!...things are gonna get to stinkin’ in short order.

What we were told made a lot of sense. Use a spatula and check for sheeting in the center of the pan. If the syrup in the center of the pan sheets off the spatula, draw off slowly into a bucket until the syrup at the center of the pan reaches the draw off point. Set that bucket aside and draw off your syrup (that was in the center of the pan). Now add that bucket you set aside slowly back in just ahead of your draw off port.


The advice we were given is small, frequent draws are good. Large, infrequent draws are not so good. An inch to inch and a half in the pan is good. Use a defoamer.

[Starting Small]

When we do draw off into the hydrometer to test, do we pour that back into the drawoff box or into the pan? I am assuming the draw off box since that is where it is coming from.

[Indiana-Jones]

I would think that it needs put back in the pan, if was not syrup. Maybe even back to the second channel back from the draw off. Does it boil in your draw off box?
When we do draw off into the hydrometer to test, do we pour that back into the drawoff box or into the pan? I am assuming the draw off box since that is where it is coming from.

[Starting Small]

It never really boils in the drawoff box which is why I am a little concerned. The middle of the pan boils like crazy but the sides less so.