plastic tubing spiles

[ckkrotz]

I know I've read to replace plastic spiles every year, but I am not sure of the reason... is it just the bacteria issue... that yield will be reduced because of it? Or is there another reason, such as health related reasons... plastic breaking down or something? We have about 15 taps going into 5 gallon buckets. Thanks.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

It is the bacteria and the resulting reduction in yield.

[Jeff E]

You can also use extensions, which in effect put new plastic in the trees.
For the number of trees you are doing, if you want to maximize the yeild, spend the extra $5 and put in new taps.
Or you could buy stainless spouts and clean them up real good each year and use them the rest of your life!

[Starting Small]

So then I am assuming you would also need new drop lines correct? If you are cutting the tubing off of the tees should we be concerned about reusing the tees if they are scratched a bit from removing the tubing? Us smaller guys are not using vaccuum obsiously. Thanks for the comments,

[MustardSeedMum]

What about plastic BUCKET spiles? They look like they would clean up easier?

I can see how the tubing spiles would be a problem... I just took a q-tip to a few that were used a couple of seasons ago. Gross black stuff - and this is after they were supposedly cleaned end of season.

[SPILEDRIVER]

just out of curiosity why cant you wash your spiles in a 10% bleach solution and reuse them each year??

[Brent]

Tests, done by University of Vermont I believe, have shown that it is nearly impossible to get all the bacteria and microbes off
old spiles and tubing. They've tried nearly everything practical from chlorine (bleach) to alcohol. Nothing beats putting a new spile into the tree every year. The flow is better and the hole dries up later with new stuff. They found it is beneficial to change the drop lines. All this led to the developement of check valve spiles that are new every year and stop sap from going back into the tap hole at night, carrying gunk back from the drop lines.

Guys like us have so many variables that we can only do what the science from the University tells us is best and feel good that we're doing it right. We can never really measure it.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

you can never get rid of all the bacteria, it forms a protective layer over itself.
You loose approximately 10% OF SAP YIELD EACH YEAR IF YOU CONTINUE (dam caps lock) use the same tap over and over and over with out using adapters.
this is how I think of a maple tree
its like your own body, when you cut yourself two things happen, white blood cells go to fight infection and red clot up the blood. Maple tree is similiar, when it detects an infection ie: bacteria/microbes it starts to heal itself which stops the sap from flowing. The longer you can keep bacteria from entering the tap hole the more sap you are gonna yield.

[ckkrotz]

I have several stainless bucket taps, which we tried to use last year with tubing (it was our first year and we hadn't really done enough planning/research ahead of time, so we went with what we could get)... They of course leaked, but I'm wondering if there is any way to use them with tubing and minimize the leaking... Might buy new stainless tubing taps next year, but this year really need to go with what we have... any thoughts about connecting them???

[TunbridgeDave]

I wonder if anyone tried to boil the spiles to sterilize them?

[Takoda Whitcomb]

How much bacteria is on those plastic spouts when you buy them? We plan to wash and reuse our 1 year spouts.

[West Mountain Maple]

I have heard that this biofilm is not easily removed even from stainless steel taps and must be ultrasonically cleaned each year, true?

[Goggleeye]

We've used 5/16 stainless taps for the last 4 years now. We boil the snot out of them before we reuse them. This past year we got 1.4 quarts of syrup per tap on 400 taps, all gravity tubing. Didn't replace any drops either. Yeah, I know, just think about how much we could've made with new drops and spouts.:) The normal bacteria can't handle that kind of heat for that long. Could there be somewhat of a substrate or medium left for new bacteria to cling to? Possibly. But we're going to continue as we are.

[spud]

How much bacteria is on those plastic spouts when you buy them? We plan to wash and reuse our 1 year spouts.

With new spouts costing only .17-50 cents why would you use your old spouts.

Spud

[maple flats]

By far the spout is the most important component the change every year. It is not currently recommended to change drops yearly, most suggest that every 5 yrs or so. Using the old will work, but you get less yield each year than you would get with new. It is still up to you, do you want the most from what you have or are you satisfied with less than your potential?

[PerryFamily]

Quite a few old schoolers around here use old spouts too. @ 17cents I just can't believe why you wouldn't want to change them. Probably the simplest way to increase production with very little cost or effort. I would think the additional syrup won't take long to pay for them.

[Maple Hill]

Quite a few old schoolers around here use old spouts too. @ 17cents I just can't believe why you wouldn't want to change them. Probably the simplest way to increase production with very little cost or effort. I would think the additional syrup won't take long to pay for them.. Last year we used the 7/16 metal spouts we used forever,also tried 5/16 spouts meant for tubing,just put a hook on them. At the end of the season the metal spouts were all dried up but the 5/16 spouts were still running. I will never use the same spout twice again,it will more than pay for itself.

[maple flats]

Early in the season it will make little difference, but in late season the old spile (spout, tap) hole will dry up far sooner than a new one (even than an old super cleaned one).

[Goggleeye]

But here is what I want to know - scientifically:

Does sterilization of stainless not work? I don't understand why heat alone wouldn't be enough (plastic or stainless). Can someone answer my previous question, does material remain on the stainless taps that gives new bacteria a growth medium?
Or even chemically, why wouldn't cleaning acids like those used in the dairy industry kill and physically cleanse anything on any tap, be it plastic or stainless, when it works great for cleaning the lines (plastic and stainless) in a milk barn? I just don't understand why it works one place and not another.

I would think chemical or mechanical scrubbing would clean it, and sufficient heat would thoroughly kill all bacteria. Am I wrong?

or is it just that sterilization is not practical, especially for larger operations? I can boil, scrub, and boil again 500 straight stainless spiles in an hour or two. Even when you consider at 18 cents a piece, that's $90 in new spiles - well worth my time (and definitely worth my kids' time!).

I realize with the layers of biofilm, sterilizing the drops and tubing wouldn't be all that effective, so I can buy putting in new drops. Scientifically, that makes sense.

[Super Sapper]

Fom what I have read, there is no way to clean the spouts enough. There are cysts that can withstand the cleaning and basically seed the spouts. The extra sap from longer running taps more than pays for the expense of new taps each year.

[DrTimPerkins]

Any type of cleaning will help to varying degrees. In general most cleaning methods employed in the maple industry are not terribly effective for a whole host of reasons. Air water dislodges big things, but leaves the microbes. Clorox kills most of the stuff in tubing, but attracts squirrels. Other cleaners require a longer contact time, which is difficult to accomplish with spouts/tubing in the field, and many also require rinsing. Isopropyl-alcohol (IPA) is commonly used in Canada, but the studies that have been done in the U.S. show that the effectiveness is not as great as it is suggested (not to mention that IPA is not legal to use for maple in the U.S.). This is probably due to the fact that IPA is not effective against (does not kill) spores, and many of the microorganisms in tubing form spores. It has been suggested in some Canadian studies that leaving some residual IPA in lines will result in the vapors killing microorganisms and/or preventing regrowth. However, IPA is NOT what is considered by microbiologists to be a "gas-phase sanitizer" like some other things are (ozone, chlorine gas, bromine gas), so I think the jury is still out on that one. The one study where IPA was shown to be effective in this way tested ONE (1) type of microorganism (which doesn't form sports) -- there are well over 50 different types of things that will grow in tubing, so considerable research remains to be done.

As far as cleaning stainless.....in theory a very rigorous mechanical cleaning followed by sanitation (by some means) would get fairly close to new (but this isn't the same as "sterile"). In practice, the results I've seen where sap yields from highly cleaned and sanitized stainless spouts are compared with new plastic spouts -- the plastic wins. Whether this is due to something related to microbes, or due to the seal with the tree (on vacuum), or the thermal effects of the spout is not clear....but that's just the way it is.

[Goggleeye]

Thanks, Dr. Perkins

As far as cleaning stainless.....in theory a very rigorous mechanical cleaning followed by sanitation (by some means) would get fairly close to new (but this isn't the same as "sterile"). In practice, the results I've seen where sap yields from highly cleaned and sanitized stainless spouts are compared with new plastic spouts -- the plastic wins. Whether this is due to something related to microbes, or due to the seal with the tree (on vacuum), or the thermal effects of the spout is not clear....but that's just the way it is.
This is the type of answer I was looking for. Sounds like what I tell my classes quite often - "we don't know exactly why - that's just the way it is"