barrel stove, fist time mapling

[CTsugarMan]

Hey all,

I'm new to the site, and making syrup. As of this weekend I have collected 25 gal, and bolied all weekend, firwt off I'm hooked. I'm boiling on a converted coal stove that I made burn wood, it work but it takes 6 hrs to boil down 5 gal. I wanta increase production, so I'm thinking of making abarrel stove. Can anyone give me the pointers and any insight to doing this. I have a large tarped tent in the wood that I use as a shack. I think it is safe for doing ig in. What I'm looking for is the best way to insert my pan, it just a flat pan that you would use in catering.

Thanks to all that reply
Ctsugarman

[Kngowods]

Here's a pic of mine I just made this is my first year also. Lots of fun

[CTsugarMan]

cool, it is alot of fun.... what size pans do you have there, and is the barrel 55gal? how had it worked for you so far

[Tom59]

Sugarman, welcome to the madness. My 2nd year sugarin, 1st year with my homemade barrel evaporator. :lol: They are not too hard to make. Only tools I used were drill, sawsall, tin snips, rivet gun and hammer and vise to bend up sheet metal. Only done a test run so far with water, was very satisfied with it. I cut the barrel so the pan sits down inside. Then made some baffles to keep heat in & ash out of the pan. I used a barrel stove kit I got from Tractor Supply. It includes a door with draft control, legs & a stack mount with a damper, plus hardware. Here are some pics. Good luck. Feel free to pm with any questions, be glad to help. Also you came to the right place, TONS of info here. I learned so much in just a short time, great site & people! :lol: Tom

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[Ausable]

CTsugar - looks like Tom has a pretty good rig. I had a barrel stove for several years with a batch pan. Also built a rack with angle iron on both sides of the stack to set a stainless pot on each side to preheat sap in. On the bottom of the barrel I had sand and up the sides fire brick - boiled on this for about fifteen years and when I got rid of it the barrel was in pretty good shape. The kit came with a stack damper but I always left it wide open for maximum draft. One thing though - My second batch pan had handles so we could lift it off the arch and empty the almost syrup into another pot to finish on a turkey fryer burner. Good luck

[CTsugarMan]

thanks guys, im excited to get my parts Tuesday.... i was thinking of putting my pan cross ways, and try to get a hole in it and put in a draw off port. this way i can get the syrup out easy as i fill it with new sap, or should i just do one batch at a time? i was thinking of adding as it boils down, is this a good idea?

a couple questions...

how big is that pan
how did you seal the gap where the pan sits in the barrel, or did the baffles do the trick.. im going to have mine in large tarp tent, so smoke is an issues
as for sand in the bottom how much and what kind, and the bricks how far up the side did you place them?


Thanks alot guys

[Tom59]

Ausable, good points. I also did the sand with bricked sides & bottom to support a grate. Also have handles on the pans. Like your preheater idea. for now gonna run a pan on top of the woodstove for a preheater till I come up with something else. Hoping to boil on tuesday or wednesday. Let you all know how it works. Tom

[CTsugarMan]

how many inches of sand on bottem? then a layer of brick? on the sand?

[Tom59]

Sugarman, I cant answer the first question as this is 1st time doing it this way, still learning. A full size hotel pan is 12 3/4 by 20 3/4. I have one 2 inch deep & one 4 inch deep. I also have 2 half pans 6 inch deep. Hoping to run these 2 together. Ladle from back 2 front. As I said I am still learning, just hope I dont burn too much. LOL. Look at Gngowods post, he has his pans crosswise, also some nice size handles on them. As far as sealing the gaps my pans set down into barrel. I made the baffles front & back hoping to reduce heat and ash from coming up thru the cracks. Also going to use woodstove rope gasket around any visible voids between pans & barrel. Keeping my fingers crossed. Hope this helps. Tom

[CTsugarMan]

thanks tom, i will be in touch with what i come up with also, what did you use to cut the barrel, look straight and clean nice work

[Tom59]

****, you type too fast LOL. About 2 to 3 inches of sand. Ramped the sand up toward back of stove. Then brick sideways on bottom then one layer standing up sides. Also made a restricting wall in back to keep heat around bottom of pan. I will take some pics 2morrow and post them up. Tom

[CTsugarMan]

ya im good with the keys, but not with sugaring... yet

Thanks for the info and taking the time to snap some pics.. how high and far back do you ramp the sand? lookin forward to your pics.


thanks so much!!

[Ausable]

how many inches of sand on bottem? then a layer of brick? on the sand?

Just about 3 or 4 inches of sand on the bottom and the firebrick up the sides following the barrel curve. Over time you will loose a little sand shoveling out wood ash - no big deal. You could put brick over the sand on the bottom - I never did.

[Ausable]

Couple of other things I'll mention - To finish my syrup - I used a stainless deep steam table (hotel) pan on top of a turkey fryer burner. Put a draw off valve on the end - center - bottom. When getting close draw - off a sample in a test cup and check with a syrup hydrometer - I find using a hydrometer my syrup is right on. Made syrup a lot of years without a hydrometer and always on the thin side.

[CTsugarMan]

sounds good, how did you put a draw off valve on, im trying to do the same... what fittings did you use? can you take a picture?

thanks a bunch

[smokeyamber]

CTSugarman, Tom's looks nice, also consider Kngowoods pan setup, it is like mine. Two pans crosswise will double your boiling area vs. one pan longwise. I have the stovepipe in back of the barrel, not out the top to get extra room for the pans. Pre-heaters are also a great idea. You will love the setup and I average around 5-7gallons per hour, more if you use a blower. I did also add a drawoff last season to the front pan and I move sap from back to front pan adding fresh to the back. When I get close I draw off and finish inside. If you put handles on the pans you don't really need the draw, just scoop out as much as possible before lifting it out. Enjoy the season and hope you make lots of sweet stuff !!!

[Agent914]

Saw your link and wanted to add that I used a barrel evaporator for several years with no issue. I used the biggest and deepest hotle pan possible 12 3/4 x 20inches and wrapped it with a fire cord liek you stated.

This year I change my set-up for 2 cross axis pans still wrap with a fire rope and I put the set-up in a metal frame that has wheels I also added 2 warming pans see attched 53795380

So I am currently boiling 12 gallons in the 2 pans and warming another 10 gallons on the side, my set-up is small and portable. Currently have the set-up wrapped with sheet metal but want to re-wrap it with an "insulated Fire board" to capture more heat. I increased my evaporation to 5-6 gallons so far... and expect to make about 15 gallons of syrup on about 40 taps

Agent914

[CTsugarMan]

hey Agent914, i like that setup, a few questions... 1 where did you get that stove exhaust connector from, i have the vogelzang kit and it has a connector for the top of the stove (when barrel is on its side) but if i use it i cant get two pans in, only one. I like your setup better. the 2nd where what size is that fire rope and where did you get that too. and 3rd how do you get the syrup out of the pans?

thanks alot Ctsugarman

[70 Buick]

I put my pans cross way

I found it worked great


I put both arch boaRD & CERAMIC BLANKET IN MINE , i CAN PUT MY HAND ON THE SIDE OF THE BARREL & IT NEVER GETS HOT


find the whole build here http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?9753-Sugar-Shack

[CTsugarMan]

wow that is great, i had no idea how nice they could be. what thickness steel did you use for the box. and what are the sizes of the pans that you used? what is arch board? where would you find that?

[Tom59]

NICEEEEE!!!! All of them. Secret Agent Man 914, Awesome setup, nice preheater. LOVE THE DOG & SMOKEPOLE PIC!!!!!
70 buick THAT THING ROCKS!!!! What do you get for GPH on that. ****!!! Sugarman, hope you are learning as much as I am on this thread.

[Tom59]

70 Buick, how is the heat distribution on that setup? Do you find the rear pan hotter than the front? Also how do you direct the heat to the pans with them on top.

[Agent914]

CT SugarMan et al,

I decided not to use the Vulcanzna top exhaust port set-up like before so changed the design a little by picking up supplemental exhaust connection stuff at Lowes (6" flange, 6" universal elbow, 2x3ft lengths 6" pipe, real cast iron damper, self tapping sheet metal screws and 5/8" fire ropes) all for about $30.

Note this set-up all collapses down and stores inside of barrel for off season.

I put a thermostat on the exhaust pipe and try and run it at 300-500'F with no issue so far with a realistic 5 gph evaporation so far. My barrel is it to hot to touch so I am planning to put in the arch board or fire brick sometime soon.

When I cut this barrel, I decide to keep a sturdy center rib and pushed the pans closer to the "Top & Bottom edges” of the barrel so the pans basically rest on the side walls with a “snug” fit. Note I have very little scalding on the pans vs. my first drop in pan set-up.

I find that if I let a pile of ash build inside the barrel I seem to get a hotter burn and both pans see to alternating between boiling. When I run out of sap to boil I transfer the sap into 1 pan and refill the empty pan with water and let it boil itself clean.

I am going to put a roof on it shortly because soot sometimes blows from the pipe into the pans.

Agent914
2008 1 pan in stove
2009-2011 - 20 buckets and 1 pan barrel stove
2012 - 50 buckets and a 2+ pan barrel stove

[CTsugarMan]

I have learned that i have a long way to go, wow so many great ideas? its overwhelming... thanks to everyone for there 2cents keep it coming

[treehugger]

Can you convert the firebox back to coal? Coal has twice the BTU's than dry wood and burns longer. Also get a stainless pail or milk bucket that you can preheat the sap with. I had a Leader "half pint" (flat pan) with a barrel firebox. The worst boil rate I got was 6 gal/hour. You can definitely make some small changes to make a big difference.

[Agent914]

70 Buick guy.... I like the idea of a ceramic blanket to contain/conserve the heat, but I have a couple of questions:

How did you install the insulation blanket (ie. sheet metal screws and washers)?

Did you put the insulation blanket on the inside or wrap it around the outside?

If the blanket is on the inside does it get damaged when you remove the ash?

Same questions for the arch board? Did you only use it for the flat back side only of the barrel?

Agent914

[CTsugarMan]

hey all

today was the start day of the barrel, i cut the openings for the door, two things i noticed. one, the plug seems to be plastic of some sort... is it me or is that a melting hazard? the other is the top were i cut the opening seems flimsy, and dosen't seem to provide a air tight seal, i was thinking of getting some stove cement/caulk to put behind the cast iron door frame... any thoughts from anyone?

thanks

[70 Buick]

wow that is great, i had no idea how nice they could be. what thickness steel did you use for the box. and what are the sizes of the pans that you used? what is arch board? where would you find that?
I am not sure I bought a roll of sheet metal to do it, but I built the frame for it out of square tubing, arch board can be purchased where ever refractory stuff is sold

70 Buick, how is the heat distribution on that setup? Do you find the rear pan hotter than the front? Also how do you direct the heat to the pans with them on top.

Yes the back boiled better but with the draft wide open it became pretty even, I may put a squirrel cage fan on it for this year plus we are working on a homemade flue pan for it right now, I had a few extra steam pans full size 6 inches deep & a buddy gave me some SS 1.5 inch tubing so we are playing with it trying to do something like this

[70 Buick]

70 Buick guy.... I like the idea of a ceramic blanket to contain/conserve the heat, but I have a couple of questions:

How did you install the insulation blanket (ie. sheet metal screws and washers)?

Did you put the insulation blanket on the inside or wrap it around the outside?

If the blanket is on the inside does it get damaged when you remove the ash?

Same questions for the arch board? Did you only use it for the flat back side only of the barrel?

Agent914


I ran the blanket on the inside & up the sides I drilled holes through the metal for nuts & bolts, and ran metal strapping from bolt to bolt one halfway up & one at the top on each side ( if you look at the picture with the blanket look at the top left hand side , you can see the strapping)


It doesn't get damaged because it is covered by sand on the bottom (to make a flat area, arch board on top of that & then the firebrick

I used archboard in the back , on the bottom, & glued it to the door with fireplace silicone worked well

[Tom59]

Sugarman, when you bolt up the door frame it will stiffen up. I wouldnt worry about being air tight, I run with door open for more draft sometimes.

70 Buick, real nice work!

How do you quote on this board? Tom

[70 Buick]

Sugarman, when you bolt up the door frame it will stiffen up. I wouldnt worry about being air tight, I run with door open for more draft sometimes.

70 Buick, real nice work!

How do you quote on this board? Tom


On the right hand side of this box at the bottom, you have 2 choices , reply with quote & the box with the plus sign is multi quote

[Tom59]

On the right hand side of this box at the bottom, you have 2 choices , reply with quote & the box with the plus sign is multi quote

Thanks :lol:

[CTsugarMan]

Can you convert the firebox back to coal? Coal has twice the BTU's than dry wood and burns longer. Also get a stainless pail or milk bucket that you can preheat the sap with. I had a Leader "half pint" (flat pan) with a barrel firebox. The worst boil rate I got was 6 gal/hour. You can definitely make some small changes to make a big difference.

No I had to remove the gravity feed coal hopper, and it broke, it was 30 yr old cast iron and had been over fired to many times. I first tried with the coal, it did get hot but because the unburned coal was above the burning coal, it didnt let the heat up to to bottem of the pan as well, if i ran with out the hopper full, it burned down to fast. It was a we designed stove just not for what i was trying to do, so i switched to wood, but the draw back there was it burned it fast and the wood box was to small for a large load of wood to fit, the result was an avg 1/2 gph boil... waaaaayyyy to slow, i was growing a beard... now im building a barrel stove, it search of a higher gph.... i hope... any wanta share there gph with there barrels???

[CTsugarMan]

Can you convert the firebox back to coal? Coal has twice the BTU's than dry wood and burns longer. Also get a stainless pail or milk bucket that you can preheat the sap with. I had a Leader "half pint" (flat pan) with a barrel firebox. The worst boil rate I got was 6 gal/hour. You can definitely make some small changes to make a big difference.

BTW, is that a copper pan setup? if it is WOW hope thats under lock and key,

[CTsugarMan]

got an idea/question... is there any advantage to connecting the to pans in the barrel together via some piping and a ball valve? then you can fill the rear pan, draw off the front pan to have a continual feed in and draw off... there by getting away from a batch boil? just a thought, please give me you're thoughts, oh wise one (s) .....

if you had the pans setup high like 70 buicks configuration.... btw "70" what thickness steel did you use to weld that setup.. i like it alot, and im considering imitating, if i may...? also does the door have to go on the side with the plugs?


i think in addicted to this stuff

[Agent914]

70 Buick - Pictures are awesome and nice work!!!

I was complating about addiing some type of insulation but I did not know how do it. It is too late to modify my set-up for this season, so for the 2013 season I am thinking about putting a 2" thick 8# density cermaic blanket and sandwiching it between an interior layer of sheet metal layer an/or mimicing you set-up.
Thanks again

[Agent914]

got an idea/question... is there any advantage to connecting the to pans in the barrel together via some piping and a ball valve? then you can fill the rear pan, draw off the front pan to have a continual feed in and draw off... there by getting away from a batch boil? just a thought, please give me you're thoughts, oh wise one (s) .....

if you had the pans setup high like 70 buicks configuration.... btw "70" what thickness steel did you use to weld that setup.. i like it alot, and im considering imitating, if i may...? also does the door have to go on the side with the plugs?


i think in addicted to this stuff

Ct SugarMan - I find leaving the SS restaurant warming pans As Is and when I run out of sap I just put on a set of heavy gloves and pull the the pan-up and out of the stove. Then pour the sap through a filter into the other boiling pan or my finishing pan. Keep It Simple!

[70 Buick]

I doubt you could connect them
I agree agent 914 I just hit the dollar store the other day to stock up on cheap oven mits LOL

[CTsugarMan]

I was able to drill a 1" hole in the side of a ss pan, and use a 3/4 x 1/2 brass bushing with a high temp rubber washer on the inside of the pan, I then can connect a 1/2 nipple (or 12" sill cock) into the 3/4 bushing, which gets me way from the stove so i can draw off, as i fill the pan. But if i switch to dual pan setup, i got a problem, thats why i was going to connect the two pans. i will post pics once i figure out how.

do you guys with barrels get an even burn through the whole barrel, it seems to me that it would burn hottest close to the front due to the air coming in for combustion.... and then you get a hotter front pan?? this is just a theory, i havent finished mine yet

[Agent914]

I was able to drill a 1" hole in the side of a ss pan, and use a 3/4 x 1/2 brass bushing with a high temp rubber washer on the inside of the pan, I then can connect a 1/2 nipple (or 12" sill cock) into the 3/4 bushing, which gets me way from the stove so i can draw off, as i fill the pan. But if i switch to dual pan setup, i got a problem, thats why i was going to connect the two pans. i will post pics once i figure out how.

do you guys with barrels get an even burn through the whole barrel, it seems to me that it would burn hottest close to the front due to the air coming in for combustion.... and then you get a hotter front pan?? this is just a theory, i havent finished mine yet

CT Sugar Man
If I find the back pan is boiling more I put more wood under the front pan. So long as 1 is boiling I do not care I just keep adding SAP to the pans as they boil down and manually transfer from one pan to the other as I near the end filter/skimming all the time.

My strainer is a small hand held round strainer which I rubber band in a good quality paper towel (Bounty - no additional semi perfs) into it. After the temp starts climb 213+'f in the large pans I pull and finish off in the house. In the house I use a small very fine metal screen stainer to skim the "thick" foam off or other "finds" out of the syrup. The finishing process takes an additional 2+ hours depending on your amount and trying to be careful not to overboil the pan. I go to a temp of 220'f (a little thicker) I then into Pryex glass pourer for 1 last look and then into the ball jars and seal while hot.

Agent914

[fishman]

I made a stand that connects to the side of the evaporator so that when I'm done boiling I can slide the pan off the stove and on to the stand. I then open the valve and run it thru a paper cone prefilter which gets most of the junk out. I then finish on a turkey fryer.

[70 Buick]

My pre heater is simple doesn't boil but it gets hot enough to not keep your hand in it LOL

Finished my homemade flue pan can't wait to see how it works

The pots I have 2 of them , hang over the corner of the boiling sap & drip in

[Agent914]

My pre heater is simple doesn't boil but it gets hot enough to not keep your hand in it LOL

Finished my homemade flue pan can't wait to see how it works

The pots I have 2 of them , hang over the corner of the boiling sap & drip in

70 Buick.

I understand the finishing pan set-up but how does your preheater work/install on your set-up?

On my set-up I was thinking about welding on a bracket on the back side so I could place an extra pan in contact the smoke stack and pre-heat from the smoke stack.

Agent 914..:confused:

[70 Buick]

Sorry agent 914 I do not have any pics hopefully I will boil in a few weeks & I will show you
basically I have 2 rods that go kitty corner across the back of the steam pan, the pot sits in it & sloww drips into the boiling sap
It is sure better than cold sap

[CTsugarMan]

Hey guys, does anyone have the back pan boil more then the front pan? Anyway to balance this? out

[Greyfox]

My evaperator is a modified woodstove with a finishing pan. Last year, I had a definite hot-spot , cold-spot situation. This year I welded up an intermediate rack to get the fire closer to the pan, and welded a curved plate in front of the flue to divert the fire directly up to the pan. Works wonders; I've double my GPH boil rate. Two things though. 1) On start-up I have to make a small fire in between the diverter and the flue to get it to draw, and 2) I have to tend the fire constantly since I now have so little room between the upper grate and the pan. Try running an internal metal plate that forces the flame directly to the bottom of the cold (typically front) pan. For me, it was a trade-off between reducing the draft and focusing the heat. Bottom line, get the flame to lick the bottom of the pan and you'll be miles ahead. Good luck, from one seat-of-the-pants hobbyest to another.

[CTsugarMan]

Thanks fox, I ended up welding a piece of 1/8 sheet metal to the bottom of a rack/tray i made to hold the two pans side by side on the barrel, and lowered the that rack/tray into the barrel about 3-4 inches so both pans are being touched by the flames. It made all the difference, now both of the pans boil about the same, but the rear pan boils first, about 3-5mins after the rear. I copied the design that 70buick layed out, it was really good, the only different thing i did was lower the pans into the barrel more, and also put a 3" lip around the edges of the pans connected rack/tray, this way most of the heat/flame is on the bottom of the pan, therefore the sides don't get as hot, removing the scorching sound when you skim the foam.... the only ho tspot that i need to address is the rear wall of the rear pan, it's 2 inches from the stove pipe and i noticed that it was heating the side and had a some scorching... working on that next.

All in all, i have gotten to 5 gph (just boiled 15 gal in 3 hrs today) out of the gate (thanks 70buick)... i think i can get to 7 gph, i have some mods that i wanta try, but first i need t get a draw off port in one of the pans, if possible to make it easier to empty.