Moisture trap

[chevypower]

Hello just curious how vital it is that we put a moisture trap on our 2 year old high vacume liquid ring pump. The releaser will be located in the heated RO room in order to limit freeze ups. The pump is new to us and was not previously set up with a moisture trap. We are on a very tight budget so if we could get away without buying one this year it would be nice. Just in case someone has a spare kicking around we are looking for one with a 3 inch inlet/outlet. Thanks for the info.

[spud]

Hey Chevypower,

I just bought a new moisture trap with 3 inch inlet/outlet for only $350.00. I would not run my pump without it. If anything should happen to your releaser you are going to ruin your pump. I don't think it is worth the risk.

Spud

[spencer11]

i am also in need of one. of my vacuum setup next year. could you make one out of pvc? with a raquette ball or something in it? ive heard it works. i might try it.

spencer

[lew]

Spud,

Why would it ruin his pump? It is a liquid ring. It has water going through it all day long.

[spud]

Lew

You are 100% right (my bad). I did not take that into consideration.

Spud

[DrTimPerkins]

Hello just curious how vital it is that we put a moisture trap on our 2 year old high vacume liquid ring pump. The releaser will be located in the heated RO room in order to limit freeze ups. The pump is new to us and was not previously set up with a moisture trap. We are on a very tight budget so if we could get away without buying one this year it would be nice. Just in case someone has a spare kicking around we are looking for one with a 3 inch inlet/outlet. Thanks for the info.

It is almost a guarantee that you'll pull sap back through the pump at some point (especially in a new installation) if you don't have a moisture trap. If you're cooling with water, it isn't such a big deal, EXCEPT that if you don't have a moisture trap and your releaser fails you'll be pumping sap back through the pump and discharging it, potentially losing the sap.

[lew]

I haven't looked at all the releasers, but most that I have looked at have a float valve with a ball of some sorts built into them. However, that being said , I do not trust them. SEveral years ago we had one on an electric releaser that failed every time it was needed. Needless to say I burned up a few dairy pumps. That's when I decided to go with the liquid ring. Them all I had to cry about was the lost sap and antifreeze. My pump was still good.

[Brian Ryther]

The two releasers I purchased this year do not have the check balls in them any more. I am not happy about this. I feel it is the MFG's trying to sell more moisture traps. There is no reason to get rid of the check balls. They were not perfect but they did help when the releaser screwed up (which they do often.)

[chevypower]

Well, we ended up biting the bullet and purchased a moisture trap. Thanks for the advice everyone.

[spud]

Well, we ended up biting the bullet and purchased a moisture trap. Thanks for the advice everyone.

Hey Chevy Power,

Did you ever sell the land in Jay? I sent you a note a while back but never heard from you. Thanks.

Spud

[DucFight]

Hey Spud,

No, he didn't sell it yet. I think you should buy it.:)

[chevypower]

Spud, sorry about that... I have a few people I need to get back too. I've been quite busy in the woods and then off to work. Send me another e-mail when you get a chance and I'll be sure to get back to you. I have a small backlog to go through!

[Amber Gold]

I've been using a house filter for a moisture trap, which works most of the time. The releaser and pump are going into a small, heated room, so getting to this moisture trap will be harder to remove and check/drain. Do the maple ones work better, and do they come with a drain? Just wanted to check before I spent the money on one.

Thanks

[maple flats]

Yes, they dump every time the pump is shut down. They have a flapper like what is on a releaser. The vac must be stopped to dump.

[unc23win]

Dave what kind do you have? Thanks

[Amber Gold]

Good point, is one company better than another?

My vacuum runs 24/7. A flapper would work so long as I had a bucket under it. How big are they?

[maple flats]

Mine is home made. I used a racket ball and the body is 4" PVC pipe, about 6' tall over all counting the fittings.

[jrgagne99]

I made one just like Maple Flats, except only two feet tall. The inlet is at the side, and I put a drain valve at the bottom in case it ever gets water in it. No water yet in three seasons.

[Amber Gold]

Looking for something I can see inside, so I don't need to take iti apart to see if there's sap inside.

How do you keep the racquetball centered under the vac. line? That's the issue I have with mine is it'll get sucked in off-center and doesn't seal right.

[TheMapleMoose]

We also have one like Flats. In a 4" pipe there is not enough room for the ball to get off center far enough not to seal on the vacuum inlet. The boughten one we have has got a check valve in the bottom so I don't have to worry about keeping it drained. It drains @ night when the pump is off.
If you wanted to see inside it just use clear pvc. I'm pretty sure you can get short pieces from places like grainger and others.

[whalems]

heres some http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-X-24-Clear-PVC-Pipe-/271247690171?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f279f49bb

[maple flats]

Mine is regular white PVC, but I can tell if there is any sap in it by lifting it. The unit sets on a platform next to the vacuum pump. I have 3 guy lines holding it upright. The drain is at the bottom and a reservois of about 4' above that. Then the vacuum line (1.5" PVC) runs from a side inlet tee on the 4" vertical unit, the vac line is also stabilized by guy lines and has my vacuum control in it, from there it sets onto the releaser. Above that 4x4x1.5 tee, I reduced it to 1.25 to trap the ball. Out of that is an elbow and back to 1.5" to the pump. Since the unit just rests on a platform, held to prevent sliding I just lift the trap every time I fuel. If there is anything more than a few ounces it is immediately detected. My initial trap just had a ball valve on the bottom, I have now ordered a flapper check valve so I won't even need to lift. Once there was sap in the unit and it did not fill. Then there was a long hard freeze, trapping the ball. The next time I went to start it, I had to take everything apart and haul it home to thaw. That is why I've ordered the flap check, it will doum as soon as the pump stops and will less likely to have time to freeze.

[unc23win]

So I have been thinking about building one for a while. Do any of the bought ones or the home made ones that any of you have work so that if they get sap in them the ball cuts off the vauum and the sap pushes the flap open and drains it like a releaser and then once the ball drops the flap seals and vacuum to the releaser resumses? I realize that it depends on the releaser as my double vertical Bernard would most likely get stuck between cannisters.

Whalems thanks for the ebay link.

[delivron]

I can urge producer enough to purchase a quality moisture trap. I typically recommend one with an electric switch. If you are gone the switch turns off the pump. The pressure drops and drains the trap. The float drops and the pump restarts.
A round ball in the inlet tube to the vacuum pump does not always seal tight. Until you visually catch the problem it is possible to lose a significant portion of a days production.

[unc23win]

I like the design of the Bernard one in the Lapierre catalog it says it has an electric switch, but it doesn't say what the switch is for actually there isn't much for discriptions for any of them.

[Amber Gold]

deliveron...know that idea I like...don't even miss a beat. Which ones are like that, and how much do they cost? By adding another electric switch, are you adding another level of complexity to the system...another point for failure?

[unc23win]

I am right with you Josh I am interested in having the trap trip dump the sap and resume vacuum. I am not sure which ones you can buy do this CDL and Bernard both have one that looks similar both have switches and booth look like they use a float similar to a releaser. What I was wondering about if I made one would it be possible to have it dump the sap in it then the ball or whatever drop and vacuum resume. Seems to me if it was done right there would be no need for a switch. As you said what if the switch is another point of possible failure.

[BreezyHill]

CDL does offer several different moisture traps, one is a Horizontal electric model and another is mandatory with claw pumps that has an auto shut down system for the pump.

[Amber Gold]

Not knowing how much these moisture traps cost, I have a vertical mechanical releaser I'm no longer using...could just use that if I wanted.

An issue I could see with the dump and reset moisture traps is the releaser typically fails for a reason. If the moisture trap resets, and the releaser isn't fixed, the moisture trap will keep dumping sap into your pump house. For me, the releaser, vac. pump, and moisture trap will be inside a heated shed, so I think the likely point of failure w/ the releaser will be either a faulty switch or the pump not working.

[unc23win]

Exactly what I was thinking Josh the releaser would most likely be the failure. CDL has 5 Moisture traps from $180-$525 I have a heard a few people talk a little bit about the $180 one before. They are on page 50 of the catalog http://www.cdlusa.net/Data/Sites/8/SharedFiles/catalogue-2013-usa.pdf Lapierre has a like 4 choices as well $309-$550 or so. http://www.sugaringequipment.elapierre.com/default_en.asp?no=176 on page 52 of their catalog. I was hoping to hear some feedback from guys who have them and use them. Obviously if one worked tripped and vacuum resumed with no releaser problems that would be worth $500 in sap for the day.

[Thad Blaisdell]

I would think that you could somehow use a manual releaser. (2nd one) Using it as a moisture trap. Take off the receiver in the back and use that to go to the original releaser.

[sapman]

Not knowing how much these moisture traps cost, I have a vertical mechanical releaser I'm no longer using...could just use that if I wanted.

An issue I could see with the dump and reset moisture traps is the releaser typically fails for a reason. If the moisture trap resets, and the releaser isn't fixed, the moisture trap will keep dumping sap into your pump house. For me, the releaser, vac. pump, and moisture trap will be inside a heated shed, so I think the likely point of failure w/ the releaser will be either a faulty switch or the pump not working.

Mine tripped last year, several times, and worked exactly as it should. Now the reason was my own stupidity. First run of season and forgot to turn on the pump-out pump, so I had sap on the floor of the pumphouse. Fortunately, I stopped in to check within an hour or so. But it was shutting down, draining, restarting just like it should. Got mine from Goodrich's. They just took a manual trap and added the electric switch themselves. I believe it cost considerably less than the big companies.

[Amber Gold]

I was at Bascom's the other week and bought the CDL moisture trap w/ the switch...at $350 these sure are expensive. How do you wire this in? I have a 3phase vacuum pump w/ a Hitachi VFD.
Thanks

[BreezyHill]

it should have a wiring diagram with it. If not I would contact Bascoms for a copy of the diagram for that specific unit. Electricity of this amperage is not a good thing to guess about.
Some units have a mains power disconnect, so that if the trap is full power is shut down. Others are to trip a relay. A light to signal the trap is full is a great idea. Really sucks walking in the sugar house and find the pump is off and not knowing immediately why. Worse yet is the cell call by the kids or wife..."The pumps off...how come." We have a check list book now. There I was 4 hours from returning and the motor was hot, breakers were not tripped, and switches were on. Just to have the moisture trap be full, because the old releaser stuck and sent a slug of sap toward the pump.

Send me a pm with the model # and I can get the diagram for you if you need.

Ben

[Amber Gold]

Inbox needs to be cleaned out.

Had a thought. If the moisture trap shuts the pump off, it's going to take a long time for the vac. to drop to 0" in a tight system for the check valve to release and drain the moisture trap...an hour, maybe more.

[BreezyHill]

Not if your check valve is working...and installed in the correct location of after the moisture trap and before the releaser. The check is to isolate the pump from the releaser so as oil will not contaminate the releaser and product. Pump off there should be no vac on trap, but releaser and mains still isolated and under vac.

[Amber Gold]

Ahhh...good point. I put mine right at the pump...1" check valve vs 2". I'll get a new one and relocate it.

[batsofbedlam]

Your moisture trap should be controlled by your VFD. I called the company that made my VFD and they walked me through setting it up through its many parameters.

[BreezyHill]

I would use a 2" as the more size from the pump to the moisture trap the better air transfer you will have. The 2" to the releaser will gain you more cfm in the woods also. It is funny how many people under size between the pump and the releaser and lose cfms; while putting all the emphasis on the tubing in the bush. Swing gate valves are also better transferors of cfm than the spring loaded valves. The spring valves have a very tiny opening and a spring to work against all the time. Swing valves are just a thin piece of brass that is moved by the air flow.

Good Luck!

[Amber Gold]

I use swing check valves for the same reasons...expensive though.

I'll have to look at my VFD to see how to wire it in. This (http://driveswarehouse.com/p-2143-x200-022hfu.aspx)is the VFD I have...I'll look through the manual. I'm also looking to get a vacuum transducer at some point...maybe for this season.