How does sand work in the ramp area?

[Pibster]

I am bricking my new evaporator and it's getting costly. Has anyone used sand for the ramp area? I plan to use firebrick for the sides but I thought sand would work on the ramp. It's probably not as hot an area as others so there shouldn't be much heat loss.

[smokeyamber]

I used perlite with splits over it, worked great. Sand hold moisture and will rot out a steel arch. Others have used just the perlite and sprinkle it with concrete mix , then spray with water and it will hold the perlite better when it drys. I like the more temporary splits over perlite becuase I can emptly out the arch and oil it down ( barrel ) so it will last a few years.

[Ausable]

I am bricking my new evaporator and it's getting costly. Has anyone used sand for the ramp area? I plan to use firebrick for the sides but I thought sand would work on the ramp. It's probably not as hot an area as others so there shouldn't be much heat loss.

My answer is a little different then smokeyambers. When I was batch boiling I used a 55 gallon steel drum rigged with a barrel stove kit - I had sand on the bottom and fire brick up the sides - once in a while I would have to rearrange and add more sand cause things get messed up from shoveling out wood ash. When I moved it out of the Sugar Shack after about 15 years of use and replaced it with my continuous flow evaporator --- The old barrel was still in pretty good shape - lol - especially the bottom. It worked so well for me - I put sand in the bottom of this evaporator. Could be different types of sand have different re-actions - but - sand worked well for me ---Mike---

[Brent]

If the shape of the base where you want to put it will hold it, I'd suggest vermiculite.. It's cheap and it's a good insulator. Exactly what you want.

[Pibster]

Is the Vermiculite for planting flowers the same stuff? Do you think it would it be firm enough to hold the vertical firebrick along the sides?

[twitch]

sand works just fine used it in my 2 x 4 last year It come out a little hard but you can get it once you get threw the top crusty layer. Vermiculite can be found at pool supply places that is what the arch I had said to use on the ramp But i used sand any way the tin under the ramp was not hot so I guess it did the job.

[Brent]

Same stuff. We got ours from a nursery. It will not support anything. That said, our first evaporator was a Leader Half Pint. We diligently cemented
everything only to find that virtually all the cement had cracked between the bricks. Our second evaporator was a 2 x 6 Phaneuf with the normal squat hourglass
shape. Everything above the grates flare out or back so we didn't use cement. Nothing ever fell down. We have green archboard insulation behind it and being a
raised flue rig, we filled the 6" under the flue pan with vermiculite and just laid archboard on top so it wouldn't blow around. Not sure we really needed it on top
but it felt right to cover it. I don't think I bother if I did it again. Yes we had air under and air over the fire to create extra draft and I don't think the vermiculite needed covering. On our current rig, a Leader Inferno arch with home enhanced air flow, I used fantastic ceramic boards and un-cemented bricks. No bricks fell off
during the first season on this one too. Full bricks will stand better than half bricks of coarse.Hope this helps.

[Brent]

sand works just fine used it in my 2 x 4 last year It come out a little hard but you can get it once you get threw the top crusty layer. Vermiculite can be found at pool supply places that is what the arch I had said to use on the ramp But i used sand any way the tin under the ramp was not hot so I guess it did the job.

I think you're thinking of diatomatious earth from the pool store. And you better not use that stuff for filtering. It's is prepared differently that food grade stuff and
is dangerous.

[smokeyamber]

I am a newbie at this so if sand works for others and the price is certainly right I would use it. My point on it holding moisture is for rigs that get stored with it in it and in my climate with humid summers it will gather moisture. Everything rusts around here !

I used perlite causes it was easy to setup and take down. My arch gets disassembled to free up the shack for the tractor in the off season. Perlite comes out into a bag for next season. Bricks are just laid in and never had an issue. I also oil up the drum before it is stored.

Good luck on this season and have fun making some fire/steam and most importantly syrup !!! :cool:

[Brent]

Sand will not insulate as well as perlite or vermiculite.

Sand will also hold a lot of heat and keep your sap warm too long. When you shut down at night you want the sap to
chill quickly. If it sits too long in a warm state, it encourages bacterial growth that will lead to "ropy" syrup. Once you get
there you have to dump everything and clean the pans. Overhead feed tanks, hoses etc will also suffer this.

During 2 seasons out of our last 5 or 6 we have kept the sugar shack too warm and gone through this ropy syrup headache
and lost hundreds of dollars worth of syrup, not to mention all the extra work and a days boiling lost.

Do a search on this forum for ropy and you see lots of people have had this problem.
Boil like hell when you're boiling, then turn everything in the sugar shack into a refridgerator until you start boiling again.

[smokeyamber]

Well my shack will never be too warm that's for sure, the wind whistles right on through it. :lol: I have had ice on the pans a couple of times so far and that was with them well sweetened. Good tip though on the ropy syrup

[crawflyer]

I used a combo of sand and vermiculite. made my ramp with the vermiculite and then put a 1.5 inch or so of sand on top. using a blower will push straight vermiculite up the flue I think. Sand too but not as much. I laid fire brick loose on the first 15 inches of the ramp so I could lay longer sticks of wood up there. 7 or 8 firings so far this year and it looks to be holding up.

[Brent]

If you're blowing sand around you've got far too much air. You'll be blowing the hot gas past your pan and up the stack before the flues
can adsorb the heat.

[twitch]

Brent, How does that green arch board hold up to direct flame thinking of putting some on my door did know if I should smear some refractory cement on it to protect it


Same stuff. We got ours from a nursery. It will not support anything. That said, our first evaporator was a Leader Half Pint. We diligently cemented
everything only to find that virtually all the cement had cracked between the bricks. Our second evaporator was a 2 x 6 Phaneuf with the normal squat hourglass
shape. Everything above the grates flare out or back so we didn't use cement. Nothing ever fell down. We have green archboard insulation behind it and being a
raised flue rig, we filled the 6" under the flue pan with vermiculite and just laid archboard on top so it wouldn't blow around. Not sure we really needed it on top
but it felt right to cover it. I don't think I bother if I did it again. Yes we had air under and air over the fire to create extra draft and I don't think the vermiculite needed covering. On our current rig, a Leader Inferno arch with home enhanced air flow, I used fantastic ceramic boards and un-cemented bricks. No bricks fell off
during the first season on this one too. Full bricks will stand better than half bricks of coarse.Hope this helps.

[ejmaple]

twitch is right, you can get vermiculite from a inground vinel liner pool builder. vermiculite mixed 2 : 1 ratio with portland cemant is what the floors and walls are coated with before the liner goes in.

[Brent]

I had green arch board under the flues not covered by bricking and it stood up very well .... for the 2 years that I ran that rig.
In the firebox, you will likely beat it up pretty bad while you throw wood in. I suppose if you were very carefull loading wood
you could get away without protecting it with bricks, but I'm not built that way. On the 1:30 AM boils things tend to get a little
sloppy.

[argohauler]

Sand will not insulate as well as perlite or vermiculite.

Sand will also hold a lot of heat and keep your sap warm too long. When you shut down at night you want the sap to
chill quickly. If it sits too long in a warm state, it encourages bacterial growth that will lead to "ropy" syrup. Once you get
there you have to dump everything and clean the pans. Overhead feed tanks, hoses etc will also suffer this.

During 2 seasons out of our last 5 or 6 we have kept the sugar shack too warm and gone through this ropy syrup headache
and lost hundreds of dollars worth of syrup, not to mention all the extra work and a days boiling lost.

Do a search on this forum for ropy and you see lots of people have had this problem.
Boil like hell when you're boiling, then turn everything in the sugar shack into a refridgerator until you start boiling again.

I use sand in the section under the flues. It's been there for 15 years, it hasn't rusted and it hasn't given me ropy syrup.

I wouldn't recommend it on the ramp though, especially if your eye gets long and the wood is longer than your firebox.