Permeability test on Spring tech RO

[batsofbedlam]

I have new this year a 600 GPH Spring tech RO. In reading the directions on permeability testing, they say to fill the washing basin to half its capacity with filtrate.
What is the filtrate? Nowhere else in the manual is this term used. Else where in the directions the terms permeate and concentrate are used numerous times.
Please explain the permeability test.

[Mathieu]

In french, the translation of permeate is "filtrat". Maybe it can help you.

[sugaringman85]

I have a springtech 300 and i'm pretty sure that the filtrate is going to be your permeate..my guess. those manuals are really confusing. There are more pages in french then english its like they are leaving parts of the instructions out. Sitting in their offices and laughing at the dumb sugar maker who can't read french lol. We struggled with our 3hp Airablo pump last year with stupid manuals. Did you buy the expandable 600gph rig or just the regular one? how do you like the busch claw pump heard some stories about them but never actually heard of someone using one. Heard they are supposed to be better than a lot of pumps because of the claw design.

[Mathieu]

Permeability test is a membrane performance test. To test the membrane, you have to "concentrate" the permeate and take note of the value obtained on your permeate flowmeter when the temperature is at 13 degree celcius or at any others temperature if you have a conversion chart.

[batsofbedlam]

From the responses I received, I see that the filtrate is the same as the permeate.
Sugaringman85; I love the Busch claw pump. It is the quietest pump of the three; it pulls really high vacuum (26"); I set it up to run at a max of 50 Hertz and a low of 35 Hertz when 24" of vacuum is reached. It has been running at 34.8 Hertz for days on end and using very little electricity. When I was tapping my 1000 tap sugar bush, I had two taps out and a broken line due to a deer bite and it was still pulling 24".
The VFD is a bear to program, but a couple of hours on the phone with the VFD techie in Oregon and he walked me through it.

[sugaringman85]

sounds sweet...thats a 3 phase unit right? how many taps are you pulling on that rig? i'm hoping to put up another 2-2500 taps next summer and wondering what kind of pump i should be getting. I really like my aireblo pump and was thinking about staying with that since i know it and have another one but am up for suggestions

[Mathieu]

Bush pumps are very impressives! You just have to know some informations when you buy it. First, here in Canada, all Bush pumps sold have to be installed with a special Bernard moisture trap to be warranty. These pumps doesn't accept any humidity if your releaser doesn't work properly. Second, the biggest models able to make 28.4'' Hg is the 5hp. If you need more cfm, and you want to do high vacuum, you will need to go with multiple pumps setup.

[oneoldsap]

You want to test your permeate for sugar content now and then , to make sure you aren't throwing money away !

[batsofbedlam]

Actually, I did test the permeate and it showed 0.2% sugar. I don't know why that is happening. Also, I ran permeate through the membrane after concentrating to flush out the sugar in it. It started at about 4% and after about 10 minutes dropped to 0.8%. How long do I continue to wash the membrane before I've diluted my concentrate?

[Mathieu]

Do you know which membrane do you have in your RO? 4% to 0.8% in 10 minutes seem little bit long for an RO with turbine run in rince cycle. Usually, I stop keep concentrate when I obtain 1% brix. Be sure that your concentrate valve is completly opened. But, I'm not Springtech technician... I don't want to interfere with your seller recomendations. Usually the rule for rince is 300G to 500G per membrane before washing cycle.

[batsofbedlam]

I have a PVD1 membrane. What I was doing was running the sugar extracting from membrane cycle. I wasn't sure when to stop. I ran it until the sugar dropped to 0.8%.

[Mathieu]

Some membranes need 2-3 concentrations-rince-wash-rince cycles to be at 0% on permeate. Just keep an eye on your test to be sure that the percentage don't increase with next concentration cycles. Usualy, you rince with permeate to extract sugar from membrane and return it in your concentrate tank until you will be below 1%. After this, you continue the same operation but you put the valve to the drain and finish the rince cycle for a total of 300G to 500G if its possible. All depend of how many gallons of permeate do you have and if you want to do a soap wash cycle after this.

[sapman]

From the responses I received, I see that the filtrate is the same as the permeate.
Sugaringman85; I love the Busch claw pump. It is the quietest pump of the three; it pulls really high vacuum (26"); I set it up to run at a max of 50 Hertz and a low of 35 Hertz when 24" of vacuum is reached. It has been running at 34.8 Hertz for days on end and using very little electricity. When I was tapping my 1000 tap sugar bush, I had two taps out and a broken line due to a deer bite and it was still pulling 24".
The VFD is a bear to program, but a couple of hours on the phone with the VFD techie in Oregon and he walked me through it.

Does that Busch pump pull max vac even at 50 hertz? I'm setting up a 3hp, but am having an electrician wire and program the vfd, I think.

Thanks,
Tim

[batsofbedlam]

My Busch pump is a two hp. It's rated at 42 CFM which is more than I need for 1000 taps. I really don't know what it is pulling because the hertz immediately start to drop as the vacuum builds. I have been pulling 25" at 34.5 Hertz for the last week.

[sapman]

My Busch pump is a two hp. It's rated at 42 CFM which is more than I need for 1000 taps. I really don't know what it is pulling because the hertz immediately start to drop as the vacuum builds. I have been pulling 25" at 34.5 Hertz for the last week.

What is the max inches you get on that pump? Got mine fired up last week, and 27" was the limit. Supposed to get 28.5, maybe at sea level?

[batsofbedlam]

27" seems to be my max also.