Steam pan depth

[Tom59]

Hi all, I am building a barrel evaporator out of a 55 gallon drum. Got the stove kit at Tractor Supply. I plan on using steam trays fror a pan.The tray will be set into the barrel. My question is what depth pan should I use. I already have a 4 inch deep pan, holds 3 gallons. Am thinking of buying a 6 inch pan that will hold 5 gallons. What pan would give me the best effeciency. I am new to this. Last year was my 1st time doing this. Had 8 taps and boiled on a propane fryer base with a large ss pot. This is strictly a hobby, for personal use & friends. Am hoping to make 3 to 5 gallons this year. Not looking to sell any. Any and all info is greatly appreciated Also any input on the evaporater is welcome also. Thanks Tom

[emo]

The 4 inch pan should be ok, I think most people on here I have seen use either 4 or 6 inch pans. The 6 inch pans give you a little more room if the sap really gets boiling. I use 3 - 6in deep pans set down in a block arch. Most of the users keep about 1-1/2 to 2 inches of sap in the pans; it does not take as much heat/fire to get the sap boiling. I use an 8oz ladle to transfer between pans and try to keep the sap above the top of the ladle. Good luck! Eric

[spencer11]

i am using 4 inch deep pans in my oil tank arch. put the pans down in the fire so the sides will be heated and run them deep. if you have 4 inch deep pan run the sap at about 3 inchs deep. you will get a better gph because of more surface area of the sides being heated in addition to the bottom. some sugar will burn on the side but it dosent affect the tast at all.(did this last year and people liked my syrup more).

spencer

[TimJ]

Get the biggest pan you can that will fit on your arch. To increase your efficiency you should look at insulation and preheating.

Someone else said running the pans deep is better since you are heating the sides as well - not sure that is the case since deeper fluid means the bubbles/gases will re-condense back into the liquid before they get to the surface. There is probably a best-case depth, but I would just be guessing about what that is.

[Ecnerwal]

Spencer reported that he had actually tried it both ways and found the deeper boiled faster - why - more heat transfer area - ie, more square feet of liquid exposed to fire. Can't beat actual results with theories that don't apply in practice.

In actual observed boiling, bubbles don't generally condense before they hit the surface, except for a brief period before the liquid is hot. Once past that point, it doesn't matter. The bottoms of the channels in drop or raised flue evaporators are 5 or more inches from the surface of the liquid and boil just fine. When running a fancier pan where you are trying to get sap in and syrup out as fast as possible, less depth is helpful because it means less volume in the system - in a steam-pan batch system, not so much.

[RileySugarbush]

My experience with steam table pans when set down in the arch is to run them as deep as you can. The limiting depth is when the boiling throws too much sap out.

[Tom59]

Thanks for all the responses. Hoping to have it finished this weekend & try a trial run with the 4 inch pan. As far as insulation I plan on lining the inside of the barrel with firebrick. Not yet sure what to do with the outside. I will be preheating on the propane burner & pot. Tom

[Zachary Hoyt]

I've been looking at a Tractor Supply barrel stove kit to get a door assembly to put on an old homemade arch I just bought and I am wondering if you could tell me if you are satisfied with the apparent quality of the kit and also if the door frame has some provision for draft , it looked in the picture like there was a row of elongated holes there but I couldn't see whether they were to let air in or had some other function. Thank you very much.
Zach

[Tom59]

Zach, the quality of the tractor supply kit is ok. It's made from a good heavy cast. Fit & finish could be a little better, but for the money it is acceptable. Its not going in the house anyway. :lol: There are four vents on the bottom of door with a sliding cover for draft control. If I can figure out how to post pics I will show you mine. I also purposely left the small bung hole there for additional draft if needed.

5177

[Indiana-Jones]

One thing that you might think about is putting the flu pipe out of the back of the barrel, high as you can make it fit. You just might figure out how to get two pans to fit into the top of the barrel.

You will like boiling on wood.

[Tom59]

Indiana, thought of that as I was laying it out. Dont think it will work. Pan is 21 inches long, drum is only 34 inches long. Great input, keep it coming. Thanks, Tom

[Ecnerwal]

Preheating on propane == crazy. $$ out the wazoo.

Run some stovepipe out horizontal, then elbow it up vertical, and set a pan on the horizontal part - or do the copper coil around the stovepipe you can find pictures of in the gallery. Make the vertical part of the stovepipe as long as the distance from the stove/arch front to the elbow, or longer.

If you weld or know someone who does, weld two barrels end to end to get more space to boil.

[Zachary Hoyt]

Thank you very much, that's just what I needed to know. I was hoping from the pictures that that was an air supply but I wasn't sure.
Zach

[mike z]

Another thought... Make sure to put some kind of grate in the bottom. I made a simple grate out of #6 rebar, cut and spaced .75" apart. Was told to keep the ashes from building up to the point of coming in contact with it for fear of melting it. No problems so far.

[Tom59]

Ecnerwal, good point, will try to come up with something. Mike, another good point. Will definetely do that. Got the pan cut in today, hoping for a test run tomorrow, gotta find a couple lengths of stovepipe. Made a couple baffles on each end of the pan to keep ash & smoke out of pan & to prevent any heat loss. Here are a few pics.
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[smokeyamber]

Tom;;

Just saw you pictures, looks alot like my barrel setup !!! One idea that will your up boil rate by twice is to cut the barrel so you can fit TWO pans in side by side, long ways across the barrel. I did that and was happy with the performance. you also may want to install some angle iron rails for the pans to hang off. I also use 6" pans and run as deep as possible. Running deep may not appreciably help boil rate, but it does seem to help keep the boil going as you add sap. Move the sap from back to front to back with a ladle in true batching style and you will have some very tasty amber syrup ( hence my logon ). Oh and for prewarmer on that setup I started out using a coffee can with a scientifically drilled hole in the side ( ok, it was nail punched through :lol:), it was set on the back corner. Upgraded that to a pan with a valve last year...

You can also remove the damper, you don't want it for boiling, since sugaring is about getting it as HOT as possible and making steam ! :evil: Have fun, that rig is a great way to start ! ;)

[Groves]

We run em as deep as possible, and if we need more GPH, just stack a few more bricks and add another pan.


http://youtu.be/yoHky8qXOi0

[moeh1]

Tom,
a full pan is 21" long, there are other sizes, 3/4 1/2 1/4 and I think 1/6 size steam pans. You should be able to fit another smaller pan as a preheater behind your main pan.

[Tom59]

Smokeyamber, that is a good idea. Are you using a 55 gallon drum or a larger one. To run two pans sise by side on a 55 gallon I would have to go to a smaller pan. Going to check pan capacity, still might be worth it. Have you got any pics of yours? Groves, thats some serious boiling you got going there!! For preheating I plan on putting a pot on my woodstove. Gets it good & hot. Tom

[Tom59]

Just checked some sizes online. Right now I have a full pan 4 Inches deep, holds 14 quarts. If I go to 2 half pans 6 inch deep, that will give me 20 quart capacity.Also the 2 half pans should fit into the opening I have now without a lot of modification. HMMMM. You guys got me thinking!!!!!! Now, would someone be kind enough to explain to me how a true batch process works? Never seen it done. Front to back? Back to front? Does one pan just boil down to near finish? Thanks for all these ideas & help. Tom

[spencer11]

For My batch process I go from back to front. But it really depends on what pans are boiling the best. I wait until the sap looks pretty dark and then I pull those pans off (with the fire still roaring) and dump it into a bucket and bring it to the finisher. That's my process. And I hate it! I can't wait until next year when I get my high efficiently 2x6 continous flo Evap.

Spencer

[Groves]

Your batch process will depend on your goals.

If you value the lightest syrup possible, you will start will all of your pans full and as they get dangerously low in sap level, you will consolidate them into one pan and put all of your new sap into the now empty pans.

If, like I do, you don't care about the color so much, but would rather shorten the time involved, then you do well to keep all of your pans as full as possible (assuming the flue effect of using steam pans), and boiling all the time. This means adding sap very slowly, preheated sap if possible.

Towards the "end" of a multi-pan batch is where things get exciting. Too exciting sometimes.

The forces creating the tension are the drive to keep the sap in as many boiling pans as possible, to shorten the time, and the desire to not burn a pan by allowing the level to get so low that it chars in the 3 nanoseconds it takes for you to be distracted by an overhead bird or fetching wood.

At the very end when things are in one pan only, you gotta decide how far to take it before moving (if you are) to a more controlled heat source that doesn't threaten to blacken your whole days work. Keep in mind that the sides of your pans will be extremely hot, and sometimes just the sloshing of movement from you carrying it can cause a huge mess when the almost syrup contacts the sides of the pan.

I use a drop of olive oil for a defoamer, but there are plenty of options.

I keep a few steam pans clean (never been over a fire) to do my final boiling on a gas stove. This extra step has given me much peace of mind the last two seasons, instead of the frantic "Am I about to ruin it all" that I had the first several seasons.

I do use a ladle to even up the levels if I have no more sap, or otherwise need to transfer sap. When it comes to combining pans, though, I just pick the pan up (with gloves) and pour it. No ladling there.

When you have an empty pan you must either leave it off of the fire, or fill it with water immediately. If you put it back on the fire with nothing in it, or with just the skim of almost syrup that you just poured out, it will burn lickity split. I used to fill with water and put back on the arch, but that was primarily to keep the top of my arch sealed to preserve the "draw".

Now I don't worry about that, and I've realized that my arch draws pretty good even if a few pans are removed. Here's what THAT looks like.


http://youtu.be/Te_y4X_hmYI

[Kngowods]

Yes you defiantly don't want to take your finish pan less than 2-3" I just made my first batch looks like used motor oil but I don't care it's my first time ever and just haven fun I will raise my finish pan or just finish the last 5 gal on a turkey fryerhttp://img.tapatalk.com/4119464d-39e9-caa6.jpg

[Swingpure]

We run em as deep as possible, and if we need more GPH, just stack a few more bricks and add another pan.


http://youtu.be/yoHky8qXOi0

8 steam pans, holy boil Batman! How many gph do you get with that setup? I thought I was doing good with 5.

It also looks like you do not have a ramp, just fire the whole length of the evaporator?

Something to think about for next year.

[Groves]

8 steam pans, holy boil Batman! How many gph do you get with that setup? I thought I was doing good with 5.

It also looks like you do not have a ramp, just fire the whole length of the evaporator?

Something to think about for next year.


What a blast from the past. We've been unable to sugar for the last 6 years. (medical stuff in our household) Miss it!

I do usually push the pile of ash into a ramp, but I could build one and reap the benefits, for sure. At that time all of our wood was rejected oak flooring (before it was cut to lengths), so it was just easier to feed long lengths into the fire instead of cutting for a proper firebox.

Maybe I should have just built it out to 20 pans!