Leasing land or "borrowing" it?

[Starting Small]

For anyone who does not own enough property to tap a few hundred trees, I am wonderin if you lease land or if you find the landowners willing to just let you tap their trees and give them a gallon of syrup at the end. I am a beekeeper and often if we want to put hives on someones land there is no fee just a few jars of honey and I wondered if it worked the same way for sugaring.

[Bucket Head]

Both arrangements are widely used when it comes to using anothers land. Every situation, and landowner is different. Are you putting up buckets or tubing? If tubing, will it be gravity or vacuum? Usually tubing agreements are a written lease, for a certain amount of years, so you can recover the cost of installing the system. The price per tap fee varies quite a bit. So does the amount of syrup given per number of taps. I'm sure others will chime in here and share what arangement they have with their landowners.

I thought I remembered reading here just recently a qaurt of syrup per every 25 taps was a current trade value. Does this sound correct, or familiar? Anyone?

Steve

[wiam]

I would not put up tubing on land I do not own without a written lease at least 5 years. Too much to lose.

[maple flats]

I have 2 leases, one verbal the other written, both are the same terms and I update them each year for price. 2, 3 and 4 yrs ago I paid $.50/tap as well, but last year when I added vacuum I raised the rate to $.75/tap. Both parties are very comfortable with the rates I set. My goal is to make syrup and I need the trees since my land only has about 160 taps so I make sure the land owners are not looking for someone to pay more. My unwritten lease is on the property of a long time friend and I have tapped that for 6 years now. The written lease is another friend and the initial tubing investment was much higher so I wanted the written lease. It is for 5 yrs and automatically renewable for 5 more as long as I have lived up to my part.
In both cases I pay them in syrup first, allowing any jug size they want but figure it at the gallon price, most take qts. After they get as much syrup as they want, I pay the balance by check shortly after the season. Both get plenty of syrup.
To aid in getting a lease I also assist the landowner in getting an Ag Exemption on property taxes. In NYS (maybe others too) this requires a few things, 1. A written lease for at least 5 yrs. 2. Proof that the syrup producer has averaged at least $10,000 in farm income the last 2 years. This proof must come from your income tax returns and this is not profit but income. Detailed applications must be filed and I helped the landowner do this. The one I have an unwritten lease with was already fully ag exempted from the other leases he had. A land owner will find that the Ag Exemption will be far more than the lease payment but both get added to have a happy landowner.
If you do not show maple or any other farming income on your taxes this feature is not possible or if you are too small.

[SWEETER CREATIONS]

Dave : Can you expand a little more on what other factors are required and what forms need to be filled out and where do you get them for the ag assessment ?

[Cake O' Maple]

I'm pretty small, and using tubing drops into buckets. I'm using trees on the land of the mother of a co-worker for 1/8 of the syrup I make from her sap (just figuring 40:1, as I don't have a sap hydrometer, and don't care to be so particular as to measure it every collection), and I am supplying all labor for installation and collection. I offered to install and supply what she needed for another location, but the few taps wouldn't make it worth my while to go collect, and offered 1/4 of the syrup if she collected and drove it to me.

The other location is at a small church near me. That was just a please/thank you/promise to treat your trees well arrangement. The deal is done, but I'm considering offering syrup for a pancake breakfast for them, but not sure how much syrup any certain # people would need, and if it would be too much of what I get from them.

[jmayerl]

Well after driving by a yard about 1 mile from my house everyday and always telling my wife "**** there's a lot of maples right around his driveway" I finally decided to stop and introduce myself. When we pulled up there were a bunch of cars there so I didn't want to interupt. So we went back later and now there was only one car in the driveway so we stopped. I introduced myself and handed him a bottle of syrup. Told him I wanted to expand my business and just looks at me and says"I don't mind as long as you don't hurt them" I offered him syrup or some beer money and he flat out refused it. Then he tells me o by the way I own 10 acres behind the house that's full of maples, have at em. WOO HOO!

Long story short, I think I just caught him at the right time and mood. And yes he will be compensated even if I have to leave it on his doorstep, knock, and run away like its a flaming paper bag full of dog poo!