First year with my used ro, how to flush membranes of preservative?

[markct]

i have a 250 gph cdl ro i bought used over the summer, the membranes i got back from cdl all packed in there tubes and preservative, how do i clean them before i run sap thru it? the manual doesnt say much about it realy just talks about soaking a new membrane for 24 hours but thats it.

[markcasper]

You should use 250 gallons of SOFT WATER and run through only using the feed pump before concentrating. You can also just run sap and throw the first few hundred gallons away. Do not use hard well water even if a dealer or sales rep tells you to. The instructions have lots of things missing I found out. As well some sales reps won't return your phone calls. The best thing is to find a trustworthy and knowledgable producer to help you through!

One thing I found out last fall was that the membrane preservative solution goes week after 6 months and should be changed out with fresh solution say around September/October if your not getting it washed professionally in any certain year. The former was not anywhere in the manual either.

[markct]

thanks, yea i knew it had to be soft water but didnt know the procedure to flush it, so i just let it run with the concentrate valve open all the way so that there is no pressure against it?

[markcasper]

Just run the feed pump and not the turbine pump. Maybe yours is different than the 600 cdl, don't plug the recirculation pump in until the vessel is full and the air is gone. Have the permeate and concentrate pressure controls wide open.

[wiam]

I was told to run a rinse with soft or spring water on a used machine I bought. This would use the rated capacity of the machine in gallons and run a "rinse" by the manufacturer's directions. I did this and made some of the lightest syrup that tasted like CRAP. I shut down the evaporator and took some to the dealer. He took a sip and spit it on the ground. I filled 2 16 gallon drums and sold it as commercial, luckily. After I ran a complete wash/rinse cycle the syrup tasted fine. Long story short I run a full wash and then rinse my machine before any sap goes through.

[vtmapleman]

Hard lesson learned. It is to bad that the mfg's of RO's cannot put out a useable operators manual. This is a big complaint of many sugarmakers - you would think that the suppliers would go back to mgf's and put pressure on them. I never start my RO up in the spring without doing a full cycle wash/rinse. My machine sits in a glycrol solution from when I shut down in the spring until the following sugar season. The other thing I do is once a month I will start the RO up for 10 minutes to keep all the orings moist.

[markct]

i have no way to not run the second pump on my machine, just a start and stop button is all it has for both pumps that are wired in directly, so whats the best method in that case?

[sjdoyon]

We need to assist in filling out the survey. The research done by UVM Proctor Research directly benefits what we love to do.


Thanks to those who have completed the survey so far....but we need a LOT more participation. Please complete the survey at
http://kwiksurveys.com/online-survey...IONKG_c3f8cb68

Don't make me come out there and get you.
Dr. Tim Perkins
UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc

[500592]

You know sjdoyon you could have bumped up the thread that dr.tim posted in the first place instead of all this over post

[vtmapleman]

Both pumps on my RO (Springteck 300) run when I am circulating the gychol/water solution. The high pressure pump will start 30 seconds after the feedpump starts. I open all appropriate valves so that NO pressure is built up in the membranes.

[Brent]

i have no way to not run the second pump on my machine, just a start and stop button is all it has for both pumps that are wired in directly, so whats the best method in that case?

I'll bet it won't run if you disconnect the wires from the high pressure pump's motor.
(make a note of where they are connected so you can put them back correctly)

[wiam]

i have no way to not run the second pump on my machine, just a start and stop button is all it has for both pumps that are wired in directly, so whats the best method in that case?

This does not matter. You need to find manufactures instructions for washing and rinsing this specific machine. If you can't run just the low pressure pump it must wash that way.

[Mathieu]

I can help you. Which model of the 250 GPH CDL RO do you have? the '"Fendeuse", "the Classic" or the "Hobby"?

[Brent]

You can almost work without the RO manufacturer's book. Most are bastardized English from the Quebec builders and very difficult to understand. Go to Leader's web site and download the
manuals from there and try to work with them. They're terrrible.

You are not trying to clean the RO, you are trying to clean the membranes. They are almost, ALMOST all the same, so I would suggest you get a real understanding of the membranes and and how to reat them, from the documents on DOW or Hydranautics web sites ... the guys that made the membranes.

[markcasper]

Brent is correct. Your cdl machine is smaller than mine and may be older. If you only have one green start switch then its my guess that it runs with both pumps. I am positive you should not be disconnecting wires to try to keep the turbine pump off. I would not run a wash with ANY pressure on those membranes. I do have phone numbers for a few CDL reps, whether they would help you out or even return your call is another matter.

As far as the instructions.....in Wisconsin water means water running down a stream or coming from a faucet. Where the CDL instructions are made, water and sap have the same meaning and I didn't find that out until it was almost too late!

[ennismaple]

We generally use a few hundred gallons of the very first sap to flush out the RO. It's generally very low in sugar content so we don't lose too much syrup's worth over the hill.

[wiam]

I use water from my spring. But I am too cheap to throw sap away.

[markct]

Its the hobby 250 ro that i have, i took soft well water and ran about 250 gallons thru it basicly following the instructions they say for a rinse before soap wash, set it to have about 50 psi and ran it, seemed to work, no off taste in my syrup!

[Mathieu]

All its perfect. You have to supply your RO with soft water and push the start button. After this, close the concentration valve to get 50 PSI and keep this pressure. The recirculation pump will start and you just have to wait that your 250G tank is empty. Feel free to ask if you have any other question about your RO.

[markct]

thank you! im loving my ro so far, its awsome to see that 5/8 hose of water running steady down the drain, all water i dont have to boil!

[Daren]

Ok....so this is my first year with RO too and I have yet to even power the machine up. I am on well water with no treatment systems on it....so, the water is slightly on the hard side. What would the problem be with using this for rinse and wash prior to the start of the season? If I cant use this water, how do I get water to do this with? I dont know anyone who has "soft" water around me....we are all on well water. What do I do?

[Brent]

Daren
The instructions I have read from Maple RO manufacturers seem to consistently say to use the first run of sap, which often is cruddy because it flushes the junk out of the pipelines. The next issue is a question of iron. RO membranes do not tolerate much iron. My well water has enough iron that I am putting in an iron removal system. If you've got enough iron to cause some staining in your sinks ... it's too much.

If your well system has a chlorinator, that is a problem. Domestic RO systems use charcoal filters to remove chlorine because it really messes up membranes.

The hardness should not be much of an issue as one of the sales applications of RO systems is to remove salts and hardness. There really is no such thing as a "MAPLE MEMBRANE" Some manufacturers put a private model on a common membrane to try to get the replacement sales (eg PVD-1 ). And you are not going to run it for long to flush the system, and you would normally not have the pressure cranked up, so the mineral deposits.

So first choice ... pump the first run of sap through. Second choice, the well water if there is no chlorine or iron.
And then the Gee This Is a Pain solution ... go to a lake or river and get a tank load of water.

[Daren]

Thanks Brent. That is good info. I do not have any staining issues on any surfaces and the mechanicals in my house is 10 years old this year. So...it seems as though the iron level is not very high. I had not considered using water from another water source though. That is a great idea! Although it is a bit of a hassle, I think in an effort to error on the side of caution I will borrow a bit of water from my stream.....passing it through an inline filter of course. Thanks again for the great ideas for alternate water sources.