Seasonal drops and new tees for 2012

[TunbridgeDave]

I was just browsing through the new Bascoms catalog and the new CDL catalog and noticed they are selling new tees that have the slip on fitting for the drops instead of the barbed fitting, just like the seasonal spouts. I thought, what a great idea!. I'm not saying I want to throw out my drops every year but it would make it easier to change them if they look bad. Or you could take them down each year to clean them.

Does anyone replace their drops every year along with their spouts?

[DrTimPerkins]

Some people change their spouts every 3-5 years to enhance production.

Take a closer look at that same page in the catalog. It says "Up to 17% more production if you change the drop line and spout each year."

That statement is probably about right based upon the research we've done at UVM PMRC. However, the next thing you might want to consider is how much it'll cost you to get that extra sap. Yes, getting the extra sap is nice, but what is even better, and the thing you should really pay attention to, is how much money you can put in your back pocket at the end of the season. You should only make changes that are favorable to your bottom line.

To use this system you'll need to replace all your tees to the CDL Quick-Connector $0.31. That is a one-time cost. Annually though, it'll require you purchase the "Quick Adaptator" for $0.21. Then you need 3 ft of new dropline for each drop at $0.30. Then the spout at $0.17-0.25 depending upon which you go with. So you spend a total of $0.68 (minimum) each year to replace the drops/spouts.

What do you get for that? Let's say you make 10 gallons of sap per tap. You now can expect to make (based upon the 17% increase), 11.7 gallons per tap, or 1.7 gallons additional sap. How much is that sap worth? Let's say $0.50 per gallon. In that case, your net profit is $0.17 per tap (1.7 gal x $0.50 per gallon - $0.68 material cost). But....don't forget that you need to include the cost of making the drop, carrying it out into the woods, installing it, removing the old drops from the woods, and disposing of them.

If your normal yield is 15 gal sap per tap, your anticipated net profit (at a price for sap of $0.50/gallon) would be $0.60 per tap (minus labor and disposal costs). If you make 20 gal sap per tap, your net profit would be about $1.02 per tap (minus labor and disposal costs).

If the value you place on sap is lower than $0.50, the net profit is less. If it is higher, your net profit would be higher.

The economics of replacing droplines and spouts normall (without the CDL system) is even worse.

[rchase]

How much are you gaining with a new drop and spout vs only a new spout?

[TunbridgeDave]

Do you need the adapters? It looks like the tubing just pushes right on the tee just like the spouts. I'm thinking this would make it easier to change the drops out if they are damaged or dirty. Not necessarily every year.

[Thad Blaisdell]

To use this system you'll need to replace all your tees to the CDL Quick-Connector $0.31. That is a one-time cost. Annually though, it'll require you purchase the "Quick Adaptator" for $0.21. Then you need 3 ft of new dropline for each drop at $0.30. Then the spout at $0.17-0.25 depending upon which you go with. So you spend a total of $0.68 (minimum) each year to replace the drops/spouts.

You would need to buy the Quick connector every year and the dropline and spout. spout is something you already buy so the additional cost would only be for the dropline and connector. No need for stubbies so you save there. Also it is my understanding that CDL was making a cheaper tubing for this purpose to cut the cost of that down. So in my opinion right now its just the cost of the tubing and connector (and time).

I made 4900 gallons last year. So they are saying I would be close to 5733gallons. 833 X 30(bulk price) is roughly $25,000. If I believed that this could happen you bet your bottom I would do it. I dont think that it is.

[Amber Gold]

I was wondering this myself and was getting ready to post a thread on this topic. I don't know if I'd retrofit a woods to this system (I've already spent money on the tees and stubby spouts), but would consider a new install. In a new install, you already need a tee, so there's no new additional cost there. Also, we're already replacing our spouts every year w/ either CV's or standard spout adapters. Switching to a seasonal spout is cheaper than both of those spouts, so I think the actual yearly additional cost is ~$0.15...which isn't too much sap to pay itself off. I'd consider my time making the drops at night when watching the tube.

The questions is, is a system running new drops w/ seasonal spouts every year going to run as good, or better than, a system running old drops w/ CV spouts?

I agree, it looks like the spout can be plugged into the tee in the off-season, so there's no need for the quick adapter.

Also, why isn't Leader producing a seasonal CV spout? Why do we have to use a stubby at all? A high production system would be a new drop and CV's every season.

[DrTimPerkins]

Do you need the adapters? It looks like the tubing just pushes right on the tee just like the spouts.

The quick adapter is made to work with a corresponding tee. It doesn't just push on (that I know of). Instead, there is the quick-tee (which stays in place) and the quick-adapter, which is replaced each year.

[TunbridgeDave]

I'm hopefully heading to Bascoms next week and discuss this topic with Sam.

[220 maple]

I probably should stay out of this one! But I could not resist. Last Spring when I visited large operations around St. Albans, VT. I did not find any of them using CVs. Two of the bigger ones was using CDL spouts.
I suspect it's a money thing. 72000 taps times .19 cents vs .30 cents for a CV. Operations that large it's always about the bottom line. I'm very confident that CVs make my area on the fringe of the maple producing area more productive, an I've thanked Dr. Perkins personally for making my area more productive. I am in the process of rebuilding a sugar bush and may try CDL spouts in the future.

Mark 220 Maple

[ToadHill]

Mark,

You are right that with commercial operations it is about the bottom line, but the bottom line isn't what you invest in something it's about the return on that investment. Whether you pay .19 cents each or .34 cents each shouldn't be the determining factor. How much it improves your bottom line after you deduct your expenses is what should matter. If the seasonal spouts make a better return on the investment then that is what we should buy. However, if sap is worth .45 cents per gallon on average (that's the average of what I paid last year) then you only need to make .15 cents more syrup with the CVA to break even (1/3 of a gallon more sap). Anything above that and you are making more money with the CVA's. This all assumes you are installing a new system and the installation costs are comparable. If you are retrofitting an existing system then you will need to factor in the costs of each system and depreciate it over the life of that system to get a fair comparison.

Just my .02 cents.

Randy

[peckfarm]

Back from Bascoms last week and saw the new quick connect. I chatted with an experienced individual and we felt that same way about the system, too many places for air and water to get in to create gaps. The slip on fitting had no locking system so the potential for separation seemed too great for a set-it and leave-it kind of sugar bush. For my purposes the lack of CFM's with a puller make the quick connect drops a no go. For others with high vacuum and full-time in season woods guys they might make be worth the investment.