heat gradually?

[tbear]

I boil in batches that produce one and a half to two gallons (or so) of syrup at a time. Here's my process: boil sap to almost syrup, filter, boil to finished syrup (on the stove in the house), filter, heat to 180/185 degrees and bottle it up. My question is when I'm heating to 180/185 degrees should I turn the stove on high to heat quickly or should I start on a lower setting and heat slowly?

[GramaCindy]

I take my syrup right off of the finishing pan, filter it into a stainless coffee percolator, (that I have preheated with water, never used for anything else.) drain the water, use that hot water, my candy thermometer says it's 190* and add the syrup. Pour that into hot bottles, all done!

[Starting Small]

What do you mean "use that hot water? I was under the impression that when you reheat to 190 after finishing that it would create more niter? Also, how are you getting the bottles hot? Sorry if I am misunderstanding.

[Ecnerwal]

She might be using the hot water to preheat the bottles....

My understanding (could be defective) is that "over 190" was the area of concern for making more niter, so 185-190 was the zone to be in for bottling.

Going back to your first question: That would, to me, imply that low heat would be better for your direct-stove-top re-heating to bottle. High flame/heat might make the bottom of the pot hotter than 190 when the bulk is still colder?

[tbear]

I've been reading a bit about using a coffee maker for filtering and canning...I'm just not ready for that right now (no coffee maker). I will be using the process stated below for the first batch at least. And yes Ecnerwal you hit the concern on the head. If I turn the stove on high to heat the syrup faster will the high heat on the bottom of the pan have any negative impact on my syrup (sugar sand or.....?). On the other hand if I heat the finale syrup slowly before canning will it stop potential problems from happening?

[RileySugarbush]

I think you have it right. High heat can cause locally high temperatures in the syrup on the bottom of the pan. A good indicator is the hissing sound you hear. That is local boiling of the syrup and can certainly cause niter. I have seen it and that is why we changed to a water jacket bottler. That assures even heat and no boiling.

[tbear]

Thanks for the input. It sounds as though I should plan on heating the syrup slowly to 185* prior to canning. Rileysugarbush a water jacket bottler sounds horribly expensive! What the heck....lookins free!

[RileySugarbush]

Not so expensive. I built one myself from some cheap pots and parts from $1 coffee maker.

Details here:

http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?12354-Cheap-homebuilt-water-jacket-bottler&highlight=riley

[GramaCindy]

I've been reading a bit about using a coffee maker for filtering and canning...I'm just not ready for that right now (no coffee maker). I will be using the process stated below for the first batch at least. And yes Ecnerwal you hit the concern on the head. If I turn the stove on high to heat the syrup faster will the high heat on the bottom of the pan have any negative impact on my syrup (sugar sand or.....?). On the other hand if I heat the finale syrup slowly before canning will it stop potential problems from happening?

Hi again tbear. What I meant was to use the preheater water from the coffee maker to heat up my lids. Sorry if I didn't post that correctly. The nice thing with that is, my bottles are heating up after prewashing, in a large pot, (this year a boiling water bath canner, cheap at Fleet Farm) I take the hot water out of the coffee maker once it is "done" and use that water for the heating of the lids in a bowl. I then filter my finished syrup off of the turkey fryer into the coffee pot and bottle right into my hot sterilized bottles. Works like a charm. I bought a 30 cup stainless coffee percolator off of eBay last year for around 30$, money well spent for a small producer. Hope this helps

[tbear]

Thank you. I like both the coffee maker and the water jacket ideas very much! I've made some changes to my arch this year and am very eager to see how well it works...or not? I've experianced many "failures" in reguards to syrup over the last decade or so and as a result my goal for this year is pretty simple , not to have to throw any syrup out. I'm a little hesitant to make too many changes all at once. Granted most of the mistakes have been made out of ignorance and that's okay. I tend to just keep swinging until I hit the ball. Thanks to the folks on this forum I think my goal (not ruining syrup!) will be met. As soon as I have a little more time I'm going to check out the coffee maker and the water jacket. Which will no doubt lead to more questions! Thanks again!

GramaCindy...how many grandchildren?

[SevenCreeksSap]

Great ideas on the water jacket bottler, I needed pictures for that. much better than 1500 new one. On the stovetop we always went with the backyard sugarin recommendation to let it rise up in a boil and always had niter in the mason jars, no matter if it was heated fast or slow. way too hot I guess.

tbear, I see the point RileySugarbush is making about the waterjacket bottler and if your handy thats the way to go. another type of kitchen equipment if you can find one is a countertop water heater, used to heat just water for tea in asian restraunts. The whole bottom heats instead of just the center element and it has a dial thermostat. I'm hoping it works and doesnt develop niter, but we'll see.
Dont get me wrong, Riley has waaay more experience than me and his idea is the way to go if you can, but if you run across something you can use its another option. after looking at his pictures I'm thinking how to tear out the element and make a water jacket bottler.

Another question on the bottles, do you only need to heat glass bottles, or somehow warm up plastic jugs Too? If plastic too, do you do that in the hot water?

[RileySugarbush]

The whole bottom heats instead of just the center element and it has a dial thermostat. I'm hoping it works and doesnt develop niter, but we'll see.


The water heaters that have the element built into the bottom, like a regal coffee maker or even a pot on an electric stove will still make that hissing sound and therefore have that local boiling and make niter, even when the bulk of the syrup is well below boiling. I speak from sad experience!

The water in the water jacket acts a temperature buffer, the water clearly cannot get hot enough to boil syrup. I use a long meat thermometer to monitor syrup temp. You can still hear a hiss, but in this case it is the hiss of the water right next to the element and not the syrup, so no problem.

[tbear]

Rileysugarbush...I have a couple stainless steel pots so would it keep niter from forming to "nest" one pot inside the other pot, fill the outer pot with water and the inner pot with syrup, put them on the stove and heat the syrup that way? As I'm only dealing with a couple gallons at a time I don't mind dipping the hot syrup out and pouring into jars.

[RileySugarbush]

Yes that would work. That is exactly what my bottler does, except the pots are bolted together.

The other stuff are just conveniences: Heating element instead of a stove, a thermostat, a sight glass and a pipe from the syrup out through the water pot to the old coffee urn valve.

[SeanD]

John,

I must have missed that project when you posted it. Very nice.

Now you have me thinking about how I can use a couple of steam pans I have left over from the block arch days. Right now I'm using a single one on a stovetop as a bottler. It's actually the one you inspired my to solder a fitting onto a few years back. Very simple and relatively convenient, but I have to really watch the temp and at the end I have to tip it awkwardly to get the last bit of syrup out.

I really like the fitting you put on the bottom of the inner pot. How does it couple with the 90 on the spigot neck to make a tight seal? Is that elbow threaded?

How did you get a tight seal between the spigot and the outer pot?

How long can you heat the unit before you have to add more water to the jacket?

Thanks,
Sean

[RileySugarbush]

Sean,

That was the trickiest part!

The connection to the coffee valve:

I cut a big hole in the bottom of the syrup pan and soldered a copper cap on the bottom of the pot. That lowered the drain port below the syrup pot so I can fully drain without tipping the whole thing. The cap has a hole in it for a home made compression fitting (described below).

The coffee valve has an aluminum body with male threads and a compression washer and nut. That goes through the water jacket. I tapped the aluminum port on the inside to accept a short section of brass pipe. 1/4NPT. On the end of that I put a brass street elbow. The male threads have a stainless washer soldered on to back up a sealing washer, then stick up through the hole in the copper cap. I used a brass nut from the electrical section at the hardware store. They are used for lamps I believe, and fortunately have the same threads as the NPT fitting. And no, it's not "food grade" ! But it is brass.

The water lasts almost all season. It doesn't boil. In fact, I turn it down as low as possible between sessions in the sugar house so it doesn't freeze.

[seclark]

I use to reheat in a pot on the stove and some bottles had niter.I read a post where some one put canning jar lids in a pot with water and then a second pot with the syrup which acted like a canner.That idea sounded good so I bought stainless pots and like others put one pot inside the other on the stove and so far it has worked great.I'm sure the coffee urn project works great but I had the pots and little time so thats the path I took.It may take longer to bring the syrup up to 185 but the end result is well worth the time.

[GramaCindy]

Thank you. I like both the coffee maker and the water jacket ideas very much! I've made some changes to my arch this year and am very eager to see how well it works...or not? I've experianced many "failures" in reguards to syrup over the last decade or so and as a result my goal for this year is pretty simple , not to have to throw any syrup out. I'm a little hesitant to make too many changes all at once. Granted most of the mistakes have been made out of ignorance and that's okay. I tend to just keep swinging until I hit the ball. Thanks to the folks on this forum I think my goal (not ruining syrup!) will be met. As soon as I have a little more time I'm going to check out the coffee maker and the water jacket. Which will no doubt lead to more questions! Thanks again!

GramaCindy...how many grandchildren?

2, Lia 5 and McKenna almost 4

[tbear]

Grandchildren are fun. We have six. Maybe in a few more years we'll have enough for a ball team! I usually have at least some of them up for a days boil. Good times!

[KV Sappers]

Another question on the bottles, do you only need to heat glass bottles, or somehow warm up plastic jugs Too? If plastic too, do you do that in the hot water?
I bottle my syrup in plastic bottles and never heat them. Just add the hot syrup, tighten cap on, turn upside down to get hot syrup on lid then turn right back over. Seals cap and away you go to next bottle.

[SeanD]

The coffee valve has an aluminum body with male threads and a compression washer and nut. That goes through the water jacket. I tapped the aluminum port on the inside to accept a short section of brass pipe. 1/4NPT. On the end of that I put a brass street elbow. The male threads have a stainless washer soldered on to back up a sealing washer, then stick up through the hole in the copper cap. I used a brass nut from the electrical section at the hardware store. They are used for lamps I believe, and fortunately have the same threads as the NPT fitting. And no, it's not "food grade" ! But it is brass.


Okay, I'm kicking grandchildren out of the way on my way to hijacking this thread, so I'll just ask this one last bit and I'll take my answers off the air.

Tapping the aluminum to accept the brass could be tricky for me. We'll see if I take this on. I know the lamp nuts you are talking about - really thin, right? How do you reach down into the cap to tighten the nut on the fitting - needle nose?

Do you pull it apart for cleaning or can it stay all set up for the season?

I know you go right from the evap, but how long do you think it would take to bring a full pot of room-temp. syrup up to 185?

Thanks again. Very cool project.

Sean

[RileySugarbush]

Sean,

Tapping the valve body isn't too big a deal. You need to get the right size drill bit and a pipe thread tap from the hardware store. On further thought, I think it was 3/8 NPT. The size will depend on the actual size of the bottling valve that you pull out of the coffee urn.

It is easy to tighten the thin brass nut with a socket.

There is no need to pull it apart to clean. It is just water in the jacket and it stays there day to day. The syrup part is easy to clean. It drains completely since the port is lower than the bottom of the pot. Done for the day? Just rinse it out with hot water ( we use condensate from the preheater) and let it run through the valve.

I put in a 1400 watt water heater element, so the water gets up to near boiling pretty quickly. The syrup takes a little while since the heat has to conduct/convect through the pot wall. Total time maybe 45 minutes from cold, but that is just a guess...

Give it try!

[SeanD]

Thanks. I think I'll move it up on the project list!

Sean