Draw off thermometer?

[mike z]

Anyone use a digital thermometer near the draw off valve? I had one last year, seemed to work ok, but I think it got too hot, by the end of the season the numbers were barely visible. Anyway, I need a replacement; the one I had was very cheap, was wondering if I should spend the money to get a better digital thermometer and make a better effort to protect it from the heat or just get a regular dial thermometer. I do a lot of night boiling outside with just a headlight so I need something that is easy to read. Any advise would be appreciated.

[Brent]

Over the years we have used the big dial adjustable thermometers and I have to say they really keep it simple. Boil water, adjust the dial, don't give a darn what the temperatue is, only what the rise is above boiling water. Got a lot to say for them.

But the appeal of looking at a real number was hard to resist. Look it says 218.2 perfect today. Must be eh! Phoooey. The hydrometer is off the scale. Got another digital, good greif it's way over density. I think eventually we had one digital made by a fellow that makes auto draw offs, several candy digitals, and some in the Acu-cup hydrometer cups. One day when trying to make maple cream, we decided to collect them all, including the ones attached to auto draw offs and put them in the same boiling pot. We found 3 things.
1) it really mattered a lot where in the pot the probe was placed.
2) regardless of 1) there was over 10 degrees of differences between them.
3) a lot of the time, and because of 2) accuracy does not matter, repeatability does.
2a) my wife needs to stop pulling out her hair when the maple cream got screwed up.

So with digital thermometers and auto draw offs not having accuracy worth a darn, we found that we could ignore the real value of the numbers. What we used was a "reference number".
- boil, draw some syrup, test with hydrometer, adjust the number on the draw off.
- repeat about 4 or 5 times until we were confident the the syrup was just where we wanted it
and stick with that number on the auto draw off for most of the rest of the night with only
minor tweaking. (we always boil over density and adjust at the canner, skipping the
finishing evaporator completely)

So that has worked for 3 years, but I'm still not happy.
I saw on one major maple supplier's we site a serious looking digital. It looked like a good Fluke digital volt meter. So I looked into it and found that it was an Omega, but when I found it on the Omega web site, the stated accuracy was +/- 5 degrees C about 7 degrees F. NOTE
PLUS OR MINUS 5 deg C. Not display resolution ..... accuracy.

I have not made a decision yet but if you want to mess up your mind like mine, try to pick one from this lineup. Download the selection guide here.
http://www.omega.com/toc_asp/subsectionSC.asp?subsection=L01&book=Temperature

What I'm focusing on is the high accuracy series, with a high temp beeping alarm.

[Paddymountain]

We have been using a digital thermometer at draw-off, but also have dial thermometers on each side of the pan. At our place we have never drawn off at less than 221
that being said ; I like the digital for the alarm that you can set at any degree you want. it's nice to here it go off at 219 : then start checking with the hydrometer
(they don't lie) and when it's up to density start drawing off.

[jmayerl]

I have a digital that I think is semi cheap. It was $40 shipped to the house. 12" stem. I works great, I use it at the drawoff and also with my bottler. I'm pretty sure it is a Tee style from thermoworks. Has a +- of .5 degrees.

[bees1st]

I too have been looking at the Omega,I like the alarm feature the best,when your busy doing other things,its the next best thing to an auto draw off.Notice how it's about 1/2 the price than from the leader catalog if you buy direct from Omega

[SeanD]

I've had the exact same problems Brent had and use the same solution - when the hydrometer floats right, I look at what the temp. is and that's what I aim for that day. I think the mark I had to hit last year was something crazy like 232 deg. F. Obviously way off, but it was consistent.

Another problem I've had is that digital thermometers that advertise as being programmable or having an alarm actually only have preset temperatures for candy that are no good for us. The alarm doesn't sound until you hit 240. I don't need an alarm at that point. I need a fire extinguisher and a new pan.

I would like to have one that allows me to set the alarm for whatever temp. I want so that I can adjust to new draw off temps. Which Omega are you looking at?

Sean

[mike z]

Yeah, which Omega are you looking at. (This thread can't die yet.)

[adk1]

I have two 5" faced Leader Thermometers that I will be using. The only thing I cannot figure out is when they are in their NPT ports, how do I remove them to make sure they are calibrated to what boiling temp is each given day?

[mike z]

Yep, that question went through my mind also. Because typically you are not starting with fresh sap, (real close to boiling pt. of water). I wonder what other people are thinking? Thought I found a great deal on a Hanna digital for 43 dollars but when it came to checking out there was a min. order of 180 bucks.:o For 1 second I thought I could use 5 of them. Then I ended up back here again. I saw on past posts that some people out there are using the Hanna 145. Didn't see any complaints. The Maple Guys sell them for $60.00. Then there was talk about an Omega?

[adk1]

No idea, never eally considered a digital one. Just like the dial I guess. I hope someone chimes in on how they do it.Also curious if anyone uses 2 thermometers like I am planning on doing. I jsut figured it would be better than having to remove one each time that I switch sides...Hmmm.

[wiam]

I have not seen anybody boil a thermometer in water(daily). Most I have seen will keep very close track with hydrometer when it gets close to first draw of the day. When hydrometer says it is syrup check/adjust thermometer.

[Z/MAN]

On my Phaneuf pan I can just unscrew the therometer and take it out and check boiling water and set the temp accordingly. The NPT port is above the level of my syrup.

[adk1]

If it is above the level of the syrup, how can it read accuratly?

[mike z]

The thermo port must be angled.

[adk1]

I will have to screw in one and check it out. These are factory standard on my Leader arch. I would hope that it is angled but it does look like it. I will be 1" deep in the pans..I am gonna have to check this out. I cant see where the therm wouldnt be in the sap from a manufactured arch!

[maplwrks]

Why calibrate it everyday? Start the rig, and when you start approaching the syrup level, start checking it with a hydrometer. When you get to syrup, adjust your thermometer for that temp. You guys are making this more difficult than you need to!

[Ausable]

Why calibrate it everyday? Start the rig, and when you start approaching the syrup level, start checking it with a hydrometer. When you get to syrup, adjust your thermometer for that temp. You guys are making this more difficult than you need to!

I agree Mike - A thermometer will give a ball park - a Hydrometer usually tells the truth and on rare occasion even they can fib.

[mike z]

Ok, that's solved. Now do you guys run a digital thermometer or dial? Can you recommend a decent digital model, mine burned out after 1 season and I need another.

[maplwrks]

You will spend a few$$$ but a 5" dial thermometer is a great tool to have. Stay away from digitals--they are not that accurate

[Pibster]

Check out the Thermopen thermometers. I have one and it's been great.
http://www.thermoworks.com

[Brent]

I thought I had a good model selected from Omega's big chart. Waterproof, high accuracy, and and alarm. Then I downloaded the user manual. The chart was wrong. They don't appear to have a waterproof one that has an alarm.

On our Leader syrup pans the previous owner had threaded a small ball valve on that has the same male thread as the pan, so the gland nut that seals the thermometer stem can pass through the ball valve. When I swap sides I lose about a tablespoon of syrup.

[Z/MAN]

If it is above the level of the syrup, how can it read accuratly?

Yes, As Mike Z said the port is angled down and the end of the stem sits in the syrup.

[adk1]

Good! Then I am all set.

[Brent]

Our previous evap had the probe ports cut in at an angle. Getting consistency of postion above the pan was both important and not so easy, and not to hard to bump inadvertently. The Leader pan has the probe going in parallel to the bottom. Push it in or pull it out an inch or two and the depth of immersion is constant .... and continuous over several inches. I think ... only my impression, but I think the readings on this set up are more consistent than on the angled set up.

[adk1]

Well, the only thing tha I can think of is that it is put there and that way for a reason so it must work

[smokeyamber]

After reading the thread I am liking the hydrometer idea alot more, I have been sugaring for only 5 years and already have 4 thermometers, latest was a digital, which I like ok, but is very finicky about where it is placed in the syrup pan and can really scare you when it jumps up and down in temp. They all are inaccurate and my wife now finishes my syrup with the sheeting test instead of solely relying on the temp. I will be getting a hydrometer this season and set my temp using it was the guide. May even go with the 5" dial as well. If someone has a accurate setpoint electronic I am all for it, but seems they all are only guides with the hydrometer the true test.

Reading all the tapping reports I can feel the fever coming on strong :D

[adk1]

I was told that no sugarmaker should be without a hydrometer. IT is the only true way of knowing you have syrup of the correct density.

[mike z]

I agree, the best thing to finally judge when to open the valve is the hydrometer. It's just nice to be able to glance at a digi. thermo. to see how close you are to checking. The veteran sugar makers probably do this without a second thought or need for such fancy things. But for us begineers... I was just hoping someone out there would reply and say "I've been using the Omega ____, for the last 4 years, and it beats those old dial thermometer hands down". So far we have one who thinks the dial is the way to go and another who liked his digital. I liked my digital, but it only lasted a year. Not long enough for me to say I love that thing and I've got to have another just like it.
On a separate note, I would think the big evaporator manufactures would put the therm port at an angle only if it was a well tested improvement?