VVS Maple Conference, Verona, NY

[maple flats]

Last night we went to the Maple Conference in Verona, NY. They appear to have grown again. In years past they had vendor booths in the main gym, then they added a few in a hallway, then they added more in the cafe. This year they have filled a second gym, adjacent to the main gym. There are vendors from across the maple world, all the old favorites and several new ones. Lots to look at. Also, for Saturday they are giving 30 minutes between each seminar session so people can see more and still have time to get to the next session.
Last night I only got time to look thru the smaller gym, but I did manage to visit our Sponsor, The Maple Guys and buy another 2 hand tubing tool, so I can have 2 teams installing drops in my new lease. This time I got the parallel action, compound leverage type rather than the original. Chris always treats me well.
I also talked to Ray Gingerich, who made my RO, and got some more operating tips. I looked at a few other RO's and prices, none even come close to Ray Gingerich in price and Ray's look every bit as well designed and made. We're going back for the day today. I hope to see several of you fellow traders there. On my name tag I added my trader name to help others, maybe you can do the same so we can find each other. If coming on the thruway, take 365 E off the Verona exit, Rt on Rt 31 at the 1st light over the thruway overpass bridge, VVS is a short ways, huge school on the rt. See you there.
Have a great day!
Dave

[Airstreamnut]

Had a great time today!! Great seminars and great chatting with people. Missed you Dave. I'm just down in Plymouth - out side of Norwich. We'll meet up sometime I'm sure!!

Rob

[Brian Ryther]

I had a great time today. I think a lot of it had to do with Joel Boutin. This guy was breath of fresh air. No assiocation with mfg, just real truths about maple production. The major points that I took awary from his lectures were, it is ok to make good tasting maple syrup. Light color does not necessarly mean better syrup. He questioned if modern sap collecting methods have negativly effected our tradtional thought of what maple syrup should taste like. Maple flavor and color comes from poor sap handling techinques that modern air tight tubing systems eliminates. Have we gone to far? If you are a bulk producer than the modern systems of leak free tubing and air injection are the way to go, but if you are trying to sell your syrup directly to the public then you want syrup with color and most importantly flavor.

[Maplewalnut]

Just got home. Great lecturtes today. Joel spoke of what alot of maplers have been saying for years. Light syrup is a thing of the past and its last stronghold is Northern New England! Right or wrong people want dark robust tasteing syrup. Dark syrup looks like commercial corn syrup and has lots of flavor. Throw in a couple fad diets that proclaim b garde has more nutritional value etc.. and your market has been created. He went as far as to say manipulating syrup to make it light and taste light crap can only be sold to packers. He gave personal experience of farm sales sropping significantly because 'his' light syrup tasted like crap and people did not come back for more. If there is one take home I got from various seminars today it is LISTEN TO YOUR CUSTOMER.

If you sell to packers exclusively continue the course, if you sell retail it better taste good and look like 'syrup'

[802maple]

Very good conference today. Met alot of old and new friends of sugaring. I sat with maplewalnut at the first high concentrate session. That was a very good talk by Joel.

I do have to disagree to a certain extent about grades of syrup though. I have seen it many times at the Big-E when I put a sugarmaker in the syrup area that likes dark syrup, that day dark syrup sells and on a day that I put another sugarmaker in there that likes Fancy that will be the best seller. We hardly ever sell a drop of syrup that we don't let them sample first, so they they take what they perceive to be the best flavored. I learned along time ago that your opening statement on a product or piece of equipment will make you or break you on that sale. I have found myself if I eliminate the false hoods about a certain grade and let them sample, more then not they will buy something lighter whether it is fancy or medium amber. If I throw in that I prefer a certain grade though, I would say that I will sell that grade. Back when we had mostly buckets across this industry, we as sugarmakers made mostly fancy or light and that is what sold, because we promoted it. Now that we have pipeline systems and it is harder to make fancy and we have an abundance of dark syrup and we are doing a bang up job of promoting it, thus the consumer wants it.
This is not to start a argument, it is just a fact that I have noticed for along time. The real answer is which ever grade it is do your best to put a good flavored syrup in that jug, stand behind it, and you will have a long lasting customer.

[Bucket Head]

I had a great time there too! I talked to Maple Flats, but I can talk to him anytime, since we live about a half hour away from each other. I'm sorry I did'nt get to talk to you guys. We all probably walked right by each other, repeatedly all day too! We need to coordinate a "meet & greet" time at the Mapleguys booth next year! I did talk to some other Traders which was nice. Its always good to talk maple syrup with you guys!

Steve

[maple flats]

Bucket Head, sorry but I missed your session, Joan and were in 2 other sessions. I trust yours went well.
I think this years conference was the best yet, very well planned out. Now that the trade trade show is filling both the main gym and the second gym the traffic pattern was confusing at first, but it soon made perfect sense after I found the second entrance, that also routed people to the hall towards the library.
Joan and I both thought that the VVS FFA did the best job ever. The sessions I attended were excellent and Joan said the same thing. At lunch I have never seen that many people get served that fast, 4 lines of tables, both sides, and the food was good both Friday evening and Saturday. I haven't heard the count yet but my guess is that it grew again and I heard last years was 800 people.
I talked to several new friends but only found a few old ones. I agree with Bucket Head, we should decide on a time to meet at The Maple Guys booth next year.
I learned something at every session. I consider myself very lucky to have what may be the best show in the maple world right in my back yard. I encourage the rest of you who might not have made the trip to mark your calendars for next year and make it a point to attend. I haven't heard the date yet, but if the last several year pattern continues I'll guess it will be the first Friday and Saturday after New Years day. At some point that date may get too close to the 1st and might jump a week. Someone might chime in with the date if they heard. Those looking for lodging, there is no local shortage of hotel rooms.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

I saw the dates, it is the first weekend, I think the 4th and 5th.

[MilesTeg]

Hey sorry I missed all of you guys besides bucket head I couldn't see myself wearing that big bulky name holder they gave us this year. Mapleflats you were pointed out to me but I never could make it to talk to you, you kept disappearing in the crowd, hell we even went two of the same lectures. So how was the lecture buckethead we went to glen goodriches seminar instead becuase somebody still of all of our rotten tomatoes out of the truck........ boy your a luck guys ;). The classes this year were second to none me and my father decided to skip all the seminiars on tubing sanitation considering we believe in it fully and have been using check valves since they came out so we decided to hit up other stuff this year. Every seminar we went to was excellent the speakers were great and we learned something at each one and come to think we almost skipped this year. I agree we should all meet net year someplace.

[DrTimPerkins]

The real answer is which ever grade it is do your best to put a good flavored syrup in that jug, stand behind it, and you will have a long lasting customer.

Exactly. Great answer.

[pdr]

Did anybody attend Mr. Wilmot's session? Wondering if he discussed the caveats re: 50% increase in sap flow with second spile on 16" dbh trees on vacuum.

[nymapleguy607]

Did anybody attend Mr. Wilmot's session? Wondering if he discussed the caveats re: 50% increase in sap flow with second spile on 16" dbh trees on vacuum.

I attended it and his research did show an increase in sap yield when using 2 taps vs 1. He didnt say anything about causing more damage to the tree.

[DrTimPerkins]

I attended it and his research did show an increase in sap yield when using 2 taps vs 1. He didnt say anything about causing more damage to the tree.

Tim Wilmot's research didn't address that question. Rather it was focused on determining the sap yield from 1 tap versus 2 in the range at which it is most common to determine whether to put in a second tap. Obviously putting in a second tap doubles the amount of internal staining in the tree, and this has implications on tapping guidelines. There are several inter-related projects ongoing at UVM that are all aimed at reassessing tapping guidelines from multiple perspectives (internal wounding, carbohydrate removal, sap yield, cost/benefit). It'll be a few more years until the full story develops, so stay tuned.

[sjdoyon]

Dr Perkins,

Look forward to the result of the study. The majority of our trees are in the 20-30" range and we decided to only add a second tap on the larger trees (30+).

Question: Have any studies been done on the orientation/location of a sugarbush. We just installed our operation this summer on a East/NE facing slope and have been told by several local old timers we will have difficulty producing.

Steve


3x10 Inferno Arch
4,000+ Taps
7,5 HP Vacuum pump
Lapierre 600gph RO
3 SS 1500 gallon tanks
24x32 Sugarhouse

[DrTimPerkins]

Question: Have any studies been done on the orientation/location of a sugarbush. We just installed our operation this summer on a East/NE facing slope and have been told by several local old timers we will have difficulty producing.


Some years you'll do better than south-and-west facing slopes, sometimes you'll do worse. All depends upon how the season plays out. I wouldn't be concerned about it.

[gmcooper]

First time to the conference and was certainly worth the drive. Made it home in just under 6 hrs last night. Did get to meet up with 802, 3rdgen and Thompson tree. Met a few others but can't remember names. Bought a bunch of stuff. Didn't tell the wife till she found all the receipts. Told the wife that Glen Goodrich said she needed to spend time checking for vacuum leaks for me and running the sugarhouse as women have better hearing and pay more attention to details. Now need to remember to never introduce her to Glen! Great event and super job by FFA kids and Keith!

[sjdoyon]

Thank you. That is what we believed and could not find any literature to the contrary. Appreciate the reply.

Steve


3x10 Inferno Arch
4,000+ Taps
7,5 HP Vacuum pump
Lapierre 600gph RO
3 SS 1500 gallon tanks
24x32 Sugarhouse

[blackstrapking]

bucket head- enjoyed hearing about your operation during the session you presented in. Thanks for donating your time for the conference

[Bucket Head]

Hi Blackstrapking,

I'm glad to hear you enjoyed it. I enjoyed doing it. It went very well. It was fun talking about my operation and it was interesting to hear how the others got started. I was happy to see the seminar was well attended and there was a lot of discussion between the speakers and the attendees. I think everyone learned a little something by hearing what worked and what did'nt- for both the panel and the audience! The conference is a great resource for all producers- regardless of how large or small an operation they have.

Steve

[Indiana-Jones]

Hi, did any of the people that went to the convention see the guys there from Sunrise Metal Shop? They are from Northern Indiana. I'm waiting on a new set of pans and I called up there last week to check on things and none of the guys where there.

I was reading here on the board and I put two and two together and came up with Verona, NY. If you saw them did they have a 24X60 set of pans with 5 inch drop flues? If so how did they look? (the pans, not the guys) HaHa..

Weather here has been so warm I think I could have started tapping Thanksgiving and never stopped.

[Quabbin Hill Farms]

Hi I am Greg from Ont. Canada I was at Verona and saw the guys from Sunrise, there stuff loked good bit they don't use the same grade/style of SS that say a Leader would, its not as shiny but it loked good maybe even a thicker materila than mosr use. Trafe show was good lots of good information and vendors, worksop were infromative.
Greg

[Bucket Head]

I do not recall what the sheet metal lingo name is for the finish on the Sunrise Metal Shop pans. I call it 'mill finish' because thats what it looks like before polishing or brushing. The polished, mirror-like finish is what Leader and the others use. They also use a special process to eliminate the dark color from the weld beads, turning it to nearly the same luster as the pan. I asked last year and they said the thickness of the pans was 20ga. I believe Leader uses 22ga. metal.

Steve

[maplwrks]

Steve--i have been to leader to watch the guys take the blue out of the welds. They hook up the metal to electricity and apply acid to the weld.

[Bucket Head]

Hi Mike,

I've never seen it done and I did'nt know how they did it until recently. A local pan maker told me about the process. I was surprised that it was that simple. He invested in the equipment for his business. Someday I'd like to go to Leader and see their fabricating shop.

Steve

[maple flats]

Steve, don't let them know you are Bucket Head or they might not let you spy for fear you will open a shop and directly compete with them, HA!

[Indiana-Jones]

Thanks for the replies, I do have my pans now, drove up yesterday in blowing and drifting snow. Just couldn't wait for the weather to clear. I'm excited as a kid at Christmas morning waiting for the sun to come up.

Maybe someday I will make it to a conference like Verona. It sure could help a guy just starting out.

I will be boiling something this afternoon.

[MillbrookMaple]

I was just wondering if anyone remembered a particular vendor? They were on the wall opposite the door in the Red Gym. They had a 5/16 tubing tool that looked like it was made of aluminum or stainless and worked one handed. I can't remember the name and would like to talk to them. Thanks

[Bucket Head]

I think your talking about Next Generation Maple Products, I think? I know he has a one handed tool. Steven Cacamo is the owner. 315-432-1326. Or www.nextgenmaple.com E-mail: steve@nextgenmaple.com He's in Syracuse, NY.

Steve