1/2 inch mainline

[spencer11]

i am wondering about if i need to run mainline or not. i would run 2 or 3 mainlines, i was thinking about 1/2 inch line..? i would have 20-30 taps running to each mainline. is that to many for a gravity lateral? for 1/2 inch mainline do you need to hang it with wire or can you just stretch it from tree to tree? i heard some where that you didnt need wire for that size? the mainlines would only be about 100-150 feet each. is that length to short? to long? this is my first year running tubing, so i need some advice. i have laterals already up and am cant decide if i should use mainline or just run the laterals to 5 gal. buckets like was planning.

any help apriceated.

[DrTimPerkins]

If you're on gravity and each line will only have 20-30 taps, just use 5/16" tubing for the entire system. No need for mainline or wire that way. DO NOT VENT.

How many taps per lateral line do you have going into each 5 gal bucket?

[spencer11]

i will have 3-4 and sometimes 5 taps on laterals into 5 gal. buckets, if i go with that plan. good to know i dont need to fuss with mainline this year.

thanks for the advice

[Elynch77]

Not sure how the trees are laid out but if you have a central area see if you can find some food grade 55 gal. Drums cheap. For 80 taps I would go with at least two. Position the drums on their sides and run all of the sap into the drum on 5/16. Have it coming into the drum on the top hole and out on the bottom. If gravity permits run a 1/2 in line over the ground and down to the shack. Put a valve on each drum and just disconnect the line form one drum and move it to the next after you empty one. If you go this route you will have to vent the drums but not the lines. I was going to do this in a couple areas where there are 30 or so taps. Only I was going to run it to a sap hauler not right to the shack but no matter. It just gives you extra storage and is pretty cost effective.

[spencer11]

i will most likley do that next year execpt instead of 55 gal. drums i am going to go with these 17 gal. tubs and maybe 1-30 gal. barrel, just cause of the way my trees are set up. for this year i think im going to go with the 5 gal. bucket idea. but thats what im gonna do next year. i will have about 60-70 taps on tubing next year. this year i have about 40, i think.

thanks for the advice guys.

[njburg]

Last year I used tubing with buckets. I had a few trees that had 2 taps going into 6gal buckets, on days when there was a real good run the buckets were just about full.

[spencer11]

Wow. So maybe I should go bigger than 5 gal. Buckets this year? How long did you hav between collection times? I collect after school everyday at about 3:30 and then again at about 5 or whenever it starts to get dark. Do you think 5 gal. Buckets would over flow?

[Potters3]

I have some gravity lines run to plastic barrels, I wouldn't do more than 2 or 3 taps to a 5 gal bucket, It might overflow on a good day. Last year mine ran around 1 gallon of sap/tap in a 24 hr window, but on big runs closer to 2 gallons / tap

[ClarkFarmMapleSyrup]

I also did this with a few trees on a neighbors property, and i had 2or3 taps running into one five gallon bucket. those trees were hard maples. I had atleast the container 3/5 full every day. On a better run day I'd collect about 4pm and they would be overflowing.
My advice would be select which trees your going to tap, and dont put more than 2-3 taps per 5gal bucket. Or if you have access to larger tanks, you could find a tight grove of say 5-10 trees, and run into a 15 gal tank.

[spencer11]

I have already run some tubing with 4-5 taps on it. I will have to find some larger containers or just double up on 5 gal. Buckets.

Thanks for the advice.

[maple flats]

You can get large variations on sap flow from tap to tap. Back what I hung buckets at 1 location I had one tap that far surpassed the flow from the rest. I had about 100 taps on buckets at that year (in 3 locations) and 1 over flowed almost daily, while the others generally gave 1/4-3/4 buckets full. My buckets were 4 gal each. When the 1 overflowed everyday I tested the sugar to be sure I wasn't just getting water. It yielded 2.25-2.5% each time I tested. The tree was a mature sugar maple and I had 3 buckets on it, but only 1 overflowed. I no longer tap that location only because of travel time, (It only had 31 taps on that property and I leased a much larger bush in a different direction)
I think you should plan no more than 2 taps/5 gal bucket, sap on the ground won't make syrup!

[spencer11]

what if i just doubled up on 5 gal. buckets as i already have alot if tubing up with 4-5 taps on them. i was thinking of just having tubing go into one bucket and just have a foot long piece of tubing running to the next bucket. so i would have 10 gal. of storage. or i could have some 15 or 20 gal. tubs. with 10-15 taps running to them.

spencer

[spencer11]

so in the future if i do a gravity set up i could us connect all the tubing and run it to a big storage tank right? and what about vaccum, how many taps is to many on 1 lateral with a vac? and for my 100 taps on tubing is a vac worth it if i could build a small one cheap?

spencer

[Groves]

When you're using essentially a 5/16 line for both the main line and the laterals, what kinds of connectors can you use that resist pull-out enough to still keep the "mainline" portion taut?

[DrTimPerkins]

When you're using essentially a 5/16 line for both the main line and the laterals, what kinds of connectors can you use that resist pull-out enough to still keep the "mainline" portion taut?

Generally if you use maple fittings with the proper tubing, along with a tubing tool to join them, it is quite difficult (or impossible) to separate the line from the fittings by pulling on them. A 5/16" line will stop a running deer that hits it. A running moose will break the tubing, but usually by stretching the tubing to the point where it breaks rather than pulling apart a fitting. The tube and fittings don't come apart easily. If you want to replace a fitting, you typically have to cut it out.

[spencer11]

So could i run a vac with a 5/16" main line? Or should i just run gravity with the amount of taps i will have on tubing?

Spencer

[MapleME]

Generally if you use maple fittings with the proper tubing, along with a tubing tool to join them, it is quite difficult (or impossible) to separate the line from the fittings by pulling on them. A 5/16" line will stop a running deer that hits it. A running moose will break the tubing, but usually by stretching the tubing to the point where it breaks rather than pulling apart a fitting. The tube and fittings don't come apart easily. If you want to replace a fitting, you typically have to cut it out.

Tim, interesting about the moose and deer info. Always wondered about that, especially here in Maine. My experience has always been you HAVE to cut the fitting off the tubing, and then slice the tubing off the fitting if you want to use it again. **** stuff is engineered pretty well for such a simple little thing!

[MapleME]

Spencer, I'm late to this post but I think you have gotten some great info.... One thing from my perspective, I think by using bigger storage containers you will be saving yourself a great deal of time. I bet you can find food grade 55 gallon drums pretty cheap and you will only have to collect once a day or even once every other day on cold days. Like one of the previous posts mentioned, this is also a cost effective and labor effective way to STORE your sap. Why collect and lug it to another storage space when with large barrels under your taps, you can just leave it there on slow days?

I think you cant go wrong with your idea, I think people are just pointing you to not use 5 gallon pails but use bigger containers if you plan to have that many taps split between only a few collection points.

On a side note, I posted about this similar topic a few weeks ago in this "room"...got some good info from fellow sugarers on tricks and some tools needed to run a basic tubing set up. I think if you go back to the main page you can find it.

cheers

[spencer11]

thanks MapleMe. at the moment i am using hot water to put the fittings on. i have heard this is bad when using a vacuum? even though i am not using a vac yet i would like to plan for the future. do i need a tubing tool to put fitting of if using a vac? and i think i will just double up on 5 gal. buckets with the little tubing sections with 4-5 taps on ine line.

spencer

[DrTimPerkins]

So could i run a vac with a 5/16" main line? Or should i just run gravity with the amount of taps i will have on tubing?

Sure, as long as you didn't have more than 10 taps MAX on the 5/16" line. A gravity setup is fine with a higher # of taps. A vacuum setup (to be effective) should "strive for 5 taps per lateral line, no more than 10 taps".

[DrTimPerkins]

My experience has always been you HAVE to cut the fitting off the tubing, and then slice the tubing off the fitting if you want to use it again. **** stuff is engineered pretty well for such a simple little thing!

We don't ever reuse fittings on a vacuum system. When slicing the tubing to get it off the fitting, it is nearly impossible to NOT also score the barbs. If you do that, it'll leak, and you'll be back to fix it later. Best to cut them out of the line and put in a new one. That way it won't leak. Similarly, with rigid tubing, if the fitting spins on the tubing, it is cut off and tossed and a new fitting put on. Yes...I know it sounds wasteful, but 100 little leaks adds up to a really big leak, and leaks mean lower vacuum, which means lower production (~5-7% increase in sap yield for each 1" Hg), so paying attention to the small details is worth it.

I agree....the newer tubing and fittings are a HUGE improvement over what was available just 15-20 yrs ago.

[spencer11]

thanks. i may run a vac but ive got pleanty of slope for gravity to.

spencer

[DrTimPerkins]

thanks. i may run a vac but ive got pleanty of slope for gravity to.

As long as you recognize that if you do add vacuum, you'll need to totally reconfigure your 5/16" lines. Otherwise don't even bother adding vac to a line with a large number of taps on it.

[spencer11]

so i will most likley just go with gravity instead of adding a vac. on my trees at least maybe a vac a another bush.

spencer

[500592]

Spencer if you shop around and find a good deal you could get a vac setup similar to mine for 200 and don't for get you will need the lines all connected to one to make it viable and there is the vac forum which has great info.

[spencer11]

what kind of vac do you have? would i also need a realser?

spencer

[500592]

I have a gast 1550 pump good for 500 taps 110 shipped from eBay bender milk releaser 50 shipped yes you will need a releaser.

[500592]

Here's a releaser it looks like a good price I got mine wicked cheap that is also bigger than mine I would buy it if I didn't already have one. http://www.ebay.com/itm/SURGE-BENDER-WASHER-MILK-RECEIVER-MILKER-MILKING-PUMP-JAR-NICE-/170757453448?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c1eff688#ht_500wt_689

[500592]

If you can't find a vac pump like the one I suggested you can't specs on gast website

[spencer11]

I might just buy that one. It seems Cheap enough. Do they come up for sale much or is it a rare thing?

Spencer

[500592]

I looked for quite a while before getting mine.

[spencer11]

mmm...well i dont know if i will get around to it this year but that means i have another year to find one if i dont just that one to get it. thanks for all the help guys.

spencer

[farmall h]

Spencer you know what that means! Vacuum +more taps=larger arch+larger evaporator=bigger sugarhouse.:lol:

[spencer11]

LOL. this is true. :) i hope that does happen. hopefully going to tap at a friends house in 2013 and have about 250-300 taps.

spencer

[500592]

Here are some more releasers http://www.ebay.com/sch/Cattle-Dairy-/46528/i.html?_nkw=Washer&_catref=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m1538

[spencer11]

thanks. mmm... i like the one for $45. that seems like a really good deal. still cant decide if i should just go gravity or go with a small vac for 70 taps???

spencer

[500592]

You can get it and use it on another bush

[spencer11]

thats what i had in mind.a friend of mine said i could tap his trees next season.(they are making some with 6 taps this year) but i dont know if it would make sence for me to tap there..i dint know how many or how the trees are set up. but i might get it and if i dont use it i will resell it. can you run a vacuum on lateral tubing to about 50-60 trees? or is it to much sap?

spencer

[500592]

Ya you to strive for five on laterals

[spencer11]

okay thats what i have heard. then into a 1/2 inch mainline.

spencer

[500592]

You ar much better off using 3/4 inch

[spencer11]

it seemedlike 1/2 would do for the amount of taps and it was cheaper to...i know they makes 3/4 saddles to they make 1/2 inch saddles?

spencer