High Tensile Help?

[Sunday Rock Maple]

Well, now that it is getting colder (7 degrees this morning) we discovered my third type of mistake on our main line wire installation a couple of days ago. Whenever we had to splice the 12.5 HTW I used a small loop with three crimps attached to another similar loop. With the wire contracting in the cold, the loops have broken right at the tips. As the crimps held, I'm hoping they can be repaired by just overlapping them and then crimping so the tension is straight on the crimps. We've put up 16,000 feet of main line and I don't remember how many splices we have, but not too many as we used 4,000 foot rolls, but I'm betting they all will fail.

The first mistake was putting some of the lags on the side of an anchor tree instead of straight on and the lags would twist down and the wire would come off. The second was putting more than one line on a lag and the lag would pull out of the tree. Hopefully this list doesn't get too much longer as I really like the HT wire, but (as you can see) we are new to it.

Anyone have any thoughts on how to do the repairs?

Thanks,

Brian

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Were the loops hooked through each other? In other words, eye to eye?
Doug

[maple flats]

I have never had one fail. I terminate one HT wire end by circling a tree, with protective tubing over it and crimping back to itself. To do this, slide 3 crimps (I now only use 2, but started by using 3) onto the wire before circling, then a piece of old 5/16 tube. Keep the crimps far enough from the tree so tension doesn't rip the crimps apart. At the other end of the wire I do the same, this time pulling tension with a fence stretcher. I clamp vise grips onto the wire where the fence puller grips the HT wire to give more grip. Then I crimp in the same way as before. More tension is then added using side ties. I make my HT runs 3-400' at a time, ending and starting on the same tree to continue. I do mine in these short sections just in case a failure were to occur, there would be a shorter length to be repaired. I only use the wire support for 1.25 " pipe or larger. For 3/4 and 1" I run it without any wire support, like the Rapi-tube method, but using Leader 30P.

[Typical8]

High tensile is not very forgiving. Try to avoid sharp bends. For that reason I am not a big fan of lags on anchor trees. Keep the iron out of the trees! Wrap the wire around the anchor tree. Please do not wrap wire with 5/16 this will girdle the tree. Use old mainline, I like to use at least 1", but 3/4 will work. Also a good idea to go 3-4 feet past the tree before making your connection, thus less sharp bends. Yeah the cold weather will find any wire flaws, nothing like starting over when you snap a wire.

[Father & Son]

Brian,

I, by no means, am not an expert at this because I haven't installed that much tubing but here's what my mistakes have taught me. First couple of mainlines I put up one end was anchored with loops and I had a couple fail. The other end I used one of those fence wratchet things and one of those failed right where the wire goes over the roller, it bent it enough that it would break. The end wires I put through 5/16 inside of 1/2 black mainline (ya I know overkill, but I picked up a buch of both for about nothing and I'm still using it). After that I started using repair wires (I think that's what they are called) from CDL. The are a twisted looking wire about 2 ft long and they have a gritty or sandy feeling coating on them. They grip the wires well. I anchor one end, use a fence stretcher like maple flats at the other end and all my tension comes from my side ties. This has worked great so far. Hope this helps.

Jim

[maple flats]

I do use 5/16 and it does girdle the trees, but I rarely anchor to maples or other good trees, I use the undesirable species. I have not tried old mainline, but will in the future, sounds like a good idea. When I use maple or other good trees for anchor, I use a strap and winch to pull the end tie loose every year or 2 and move it a couple of inches up or down because of the girdling. To do this I run a 2" wide endless loop around the tree and hook the come a long to it, on the other end I clamp the fence puller so the clamp rests against the wire end near the crimp sleeves. Then I pull using the come a long until the loop around the tree can be moved. Doing this, never get in a position to get bit if anything slips. When loose enough I slide the loop using a wonder bar, or my leatherman pliers.

[sjdoyon]

49184919

sent you a photo of our anchor bolt for a ladder run about 800ft long. Also attached photo of side wires which are installed to hold up main line wire which can be adjusted to tighten tension or back off tension. Try to use softwood as anchors but there are times when only maples are available (like in photo), not a terrible problem to have but you do want to avoid.

3x10 Inferno Arch
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[maplecrest]

when you say crimps are you useing the crimps used in high tensile fenceing? i used them in one woods and found when using crimping tool that you have to have them just right or they will fail. i tryed the loop you did with not much luck.it broke. but the wire i took the time to get crimps right are still up 4 years later. and have had trees fall on them this year.i now use gripples but they fail also. two gripples for a splice. or you can get a straight line splice like the power co. use. page 34 larierre catalog. and i go around trees with 3/4 or 1 inch pipe to anchor not lags. and move up and down as time goes on, not to scar tree

[Mountain Winds Farm]

We use 3/16 cable clamps and a short piece of 1/8 " cable to hold the high tensile ,loop around the tree and use old garden hose as a softener. We use 4 or 5 feet of 1/8 cable clamped to the tension end and run that though the tensioner to make it unwindable if we need to take it down

[Dennis H.]

As long as you keep sharp bends out of the mainline you will be fine.

I learned a trick from Theron and I have to say that it is the cats meow.
I use square knots and ratchet tensioners. And when I had a wire fail, due to it being 15' uo in the tree to get over a road, break was caused by tree sway. The mainline wire didn't fail at the knot but where the wire went thru the ratchet tensioner.
At the end trees I take a length of wire and feed it thru a length of 3/4" mainline. I feed one end thru the not ratchet side of the tensioner. I then take the two ends and make a square knot. Now it is tricky the 1st time you try it, you have to make the knot large at 1st becuase the wire is stiff. Once the basic knot is made in the wire grab the ratchet tensioner and pull, this will pull the knot down smaller. It will keep getting smaller once you tightn up the mainline wire.

It is amazing how small the knot will get in the wire. It will fit within the area of a quarter!

Since there is no sharp bends the wire shouldn't break.

I will try and get a pic of one if you would like.


Another option that you can use is those Gripples. I use them also, very quick and can be use over again if you need to. Just cut the wire on both sides of it and pull the wire thru. I use the mediums and have had one wire pull out thru the gripple. I don't think they were meant for the kind on tension that we put on them. So what I now do is the take the loose end of wire that sticks out bend it 180, now I have stop for the wire.

[lpakiz]

I bypass the two ends maybe 10 or 15 inches and use 3 or 4 barrel-crimp splices with the special plier-type crimper and have never had a failure. On the trees, I used 1/2 X 6 lag bolts with a 7/16 vertical peg welded to the head. Over this peg goes an old porcelen corner post insulator to soften the radius. The insulator is retained by a small cotter key.
The HT wire I have is SCARY tight!!

[Paddymountain]

Maple Flats,
Do you think I could use CDL 3/4 mainline without HTW? I would like to make 2 runs; total for both is only 288 feet, but I have to put a sap ladder in between because of the slope.
also, how do you anchor it at the ends if you are not using wire to hold it up?

[Sunday Rock Maple]

Thanks so much everyone for the thoughtful replies!

I think I'll try the repair that LPAKIZ uses (overlapp with crimps) to fix the breaks. MapleCrest your references to the splices sounds good -- I'll get some to try for next time. Doug at Thompsons, yes the loops that joined the wires were were eye to eye and the tension kinked them. SJDOYON, yes I'm using the same anchor (corner insulator) as you had in your picture -- also nice shot of the main line tool, I just used ours for the first time this weekend --- love it.

Lastly, there were several comments on not using 5/16 to go around anchor trees, we haven't (using the lags) but we have used 5/16 to go around the side tie trees, sounds like I'll need to replace that with 3/4" to prevent damage in a year or two.

Thanks again folks -- what a fantastic resource this site is.

[Brent]

I've never used a crip or gripple yet. KISS Simple twist wraps about 2' long back around wire. Learn how to twist them up correctly doing stainless wire leaders for big salt water fish. When I do a splice a get a decent sized shackle to give the wire a bit of radius to bend around. Had trees fall on the lines. Broke the side pulls of lighter wire but never broke a 12 G (( yet ))

[danno]

Splicing a peice of HT with crimps on either end to fix a broken HT wire works just fine. With no bends in the wire, it will be just as strong as any other section. You should release some side ties or an end line so you can get the two broken ends as close together as possible so as not to have too much slack in the line after the fix. I went to crimps with a TSC crimper a few years ago and love it.

Paddy - best way to hold up a mainline without HT is to put a chinese finger on the end. Best way to side tie is with strapping they sell for it, but I personally like ratchet straps for a short run. Figure a 200' run of mainline is only gonna reguire about 6 ratchet straps = $8.