So Whose Beliefs Are We Infringing On?

[Bruce L]

Big news headlines here yesterday over the radio.Two local school bus drivers decorated their buses up for the Christmas(OH can I say that?) season.local ethnic people stated that it infringed on their rights and beliefs,so guess who wins? The bus drivers were told to undecorate their buses or face being fired,as the snowflakes or bows could be used as weapons,or insult someone's beliefs.We here in Canada are so willing to bend over backwards not to offend anyone(or our governments are) that we have dropped our own beliefs to support everyone else.Wonder what would happen if we went over to a foreign country,can our woman not wear veils and not be stoned for it?
So I am saying her a VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS SEASON to everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[talahi maple products]

We have the same problem here in the State's, So Thank You for the Sentiment Bruce, and Merry CHRISTmas to you also.

[seclark]

I second the thought,MERRY CHRISTMAS to everyone and if they get offended they can go back to the $$$$hole they came from!The leaders of this country lost thier !!!!s

[SadSams]

We have the same problem here in the State's, So Thank You for the Sentiment Bruce, and Merry CHRISTmas to you also.

Bruce, I'm with you 100%. I say Merry Christmas and if somebody gets offended, well thats to darn bad. I'll bet their enjoying life here a bit better than where they came from. I'm done. Next.

[sk8heaven]

Yep, we no longer have Christmas parties - they are now Holiday parties, can't wish Merry Christmas, it's happy holidays, good grief...... I am tired of all the
"political correctness". Less time needs to be spent worrying about offending people. So I too wish all a Merry Christmas!

[Bucket Head]

I agree. No more Christmas anything, and many schools now don't allow the word 'Halloween' anymore. Any october doings are called 'harvest' something or other. Its has gotten way out of hand. Don't we have more serious problems in this country that need more attention?

Steve

[lastwoodsman]

I also am sick of the bull---
woodsman

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sap retreiver]

Problem # 1 political corectness. Anything to do with a politician is usually bs. So yes to all a merry christmas and happy new year

[KV Sappers]

Ditto ....ditto...ditto
merry christmas and a healthy sap run new year to everyone !!!!

[nas]

Bruce it seems to me that usually the ethnic groups aren't the ones that care, it's the politically correct do gooders, who worry that we might upset the ethnic groups, that cause all the fuss. That being said, a Wonderful Merry Christmas to you all and a Blessed Happy New Year!!!!

Nick

[backyard sugaring]

I say to the all the people who don't believe in Christmas should be required to go to work. It's not a holiday to them. Just my two cents. Merry Christmas Lee

[Cardigan99]

Until people start calling for the heads/jobs of the people who keep pushing this on us it will only get worse.

[twitch]

In Portland the city puts up a Christmas tree but they have to call it a holiday tree. I wonder is there another holiday that decorates a tree I don't think so it must be a Christmas tree. If it was a Menorah would just be a holiday candle stand. And the Easter bunny would it just be a holiday bunny. Its a Christmas tree down there in Portland and in my living room so Merry Christmas to all!!

[GramaCindy]

I agree with all! THIS IS CRAZY! In reading these posts, I just had to think….Isn't the Christmas Tree in DC, called the "National Christmas Tree?" HUH? Why can't we call ALL of the trees, CHRISTMAS TREES? oh, and MERRY CHRISTMAS Everyone!

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

you can thank all the LIBTARDS for PC and not wanting to hurt little johnies feeling. If you dont like how or what our Country was based on GO THE **** back from where you came from we were doing just fine with out you.

[spud]

JUSUS is the reason for the season. It's that simple. If you don't like that then go to work on Christmas day. And if you refuse to believe that then you can spend time in Hell when you die. Need i say more.

Spud

[Ausable]

Merry CHRISTMAS to all my fellow Sugarmakers.......... Suggestion to those that are embarrased by the birth of Jesus Christ. Go seek employment from those - you are so afraid of offending. I'm sure they would love to have you in their ranks. Tell them the Sugarmakers said Merry CHRISTMAS......Mike---

[Tweegs]

Aye,
Sick of all the BS me-self.

Merry Christmas to all!

[vikingHB]

Tired of feeling like a minority in my country!!!

I was listening to the radio a few days ago, and I thought this is the last straw. Our political capital here in Canada announced they would no longer have a nativity scene. It ended up being just a joke, so I thought I'd share.
As stated no nativity scene due to not being able to find 3 wise men in our political capital. They also searched high and low throughout the city and could not find a virgin. The only thing they could find to place in the nativity scene were a bunch of asses.

[DrTimPerkins]

...If you dont like how or what our Country was based on.....

First, I do not mind the public displays of religion....many of them are quite beautiful. I actually prefer those to the more secular displays at the other places of worship we seem to have (Malls). Second....yes, the policitial correctness around this subject is often taken to extraordinarily absurd levels.

HOWEVER....to play the Devil's Advocate in this conversation.....the foundations of this wonderous nation (U.S.) are built upon the Separation of Church and State as enshrined in the Establishment Clause / First Amendment to the Constitution. There is no single national religion....that is the point. It was vitally important to our ancestors that this be the law of the nation, as many of them were persecuted elsewhere and came to the new world so they could practice their own religion without state influence. It is a critical factor in this countries development 250 years ago, and is still just as important today. It keeps the religious wackos from any extreme from taking over. It is the FIRST Amendment, not an afterthought. Religious tolerance (tolerance of all kinds) and personal freedom is what this country is all about. Displaying tolerance and kindness to everyone is certainly what this joyous season is about.

With that, best wishes for a Merry Christmas or whatever event you wish to celebrate/commemorate, and a Happy and Sap-filled New Year to you all.

[Paddymountain]

The separaton of church and state is not found in the constitution, but in a letter penned by Jefferson,a couple of years after the constitution was ratified.

[DrTimPerkins]

The separaton of church and state is not found in the constitution, but in a letter penned by Jefferson,a couple of years after the constitution was ratified.

That is correct....to a point. You are right that the PHRASE "separation of church and state" is NOT in the Constitution. Instead, the First Amendment reads,

""Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

Jefferson wrote in 1802,

"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."

However ~220+ years of legal wrangling, including several decisions by the U.S. Supreme Court, have interpreted this to generally mean that the framers of the Constitution intended there be a separation (or wall) between matters of the church and matters of state. Obviously you are welcome to disagree with this weighty body of jurisprudence if you like....that is your right in our free country.

[northwoods_forestry]

Amen Dr. Perkins! And a joyous holiday season to all!

[maple flats]

[QUOTE=DrTimPerkins;168433]That is correct....to a point. You are right that the PHRASE "separation of church and state" is NOT in the Constitution. Instead, the First Amendment reads,

""Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

Jefferson wrote in 1802,
When they tell me I can't have a Christmas Tree displayed in a city park or anyplace else, they are "prohibiting the free exercise thereof"!!!!
Merry Christmas everyone.
Dave

[Stamford sugarmaker]

"Religious tolerance (tolerance of all kinds) and personal freedom is what this country is all about. Displaying tolerance and kindness to everyone is certainly what this joyous season is about."

Well said, Dr. Tim.

Peter

[red maples]

In my opinon it is the holiday season and I hope everyone has a great holiday. As far as a holiday tree well to the best of my knowledge the the tree is a representation of christmas and only those who celebrate christmas use christmas trees therefore it should be a christmas tree not a holiday tree just like a manora(sp?) is not a holiday manora but a hanukkah(sp?) manora. People can do or say what ever they want its really doesn't bother me one way or the other as long as I have the freedom to celebtare what I want to celebrate then I am all set.

[DrTimPerkins]

When they tell me I can't have a Christmas Tree displayed in a city park or anyplace else, they are "prohibiting the free exercise thereof"!!!!

Generally it is NOT a problem, as long as the local government is not encouraging or showing preference to any particular religion, and not paying for it with tax $ in any way, and they allow other religions equal representation. Usually the reason they have regulations against any type of display is because some lawyer threatened to sue them, and they're just covering their butts.

[Bruce L]

All I can say is WOW!I haven't been on the trader for a couple of days but I see I have struck up quite a chord. I agree with alot of the points stated,there should be equality,freedom of speech,etc,but what gets me is the lawyers,activists or governments that decide to change the status quo to avoid offending a select few.When I went to school,those that didn't believe in religion or the monarchy simply stood outside the classroom while we stood inside for our National Anthem,God Save The Queen,and The Lord's Prayer,and that all worked fine.Now somewhere along the lines God Save The Queen and The Lord's Prayer have been dropped.Just stop any kid on the street today and ask them to recite either one and they will probably look at you like you just came back from the space station.Whatever happened to the old quote"When in Rome do as the Romans do?"I am 100% sure if I were to travel abroad and stste I am a Canadian and we don't dress that way,speak that way or act that way that things would not be changing for me,so yes,I can appreciate that you have different views and beliefs than I do,but that does not give you the right to force my leaders to tell me I can no longer practice my beliefs publicy that I have all of my life.

[RileySugarbush]

.....,and that all worked fine......

It worked fine for you.

[Toblerone]

I've been reading this thread, trying so hard to just stay out of it, but I have to say this:


those that didn't believe in religion or the monarchy simply stood outside the classroom while we stood inside for our National Anthem,God Save The Queen,and The Lord's Prayer,and that all worked fine.

And blacks just rode in the back of the bus and that worked fine. (Sorry to play that card, but I couldn't resist).


Just stop any kid on the street today and ask them to recite either one and they will probably look at you like you just came back from the space station.

If you want your kids to know how to recite that, then YOU teach them or send them to a private school that will teach them for you.


Whatever happened to the old quote"When in Rome do as the Romans do?"I am 100% sure if I were to travel abroad and state I am a Canadian and we don't dress that way,speak that way or act that way that things would not be changing for me

I'm sorry, but when I go to a public school or a government office in the United States I go as a full citizen. I am NOT A VISITOR, I AM AN AMERICAN!

Sorry for the yelling but I am so sick of being spoken to as if I were a second-class citizen. Sometimes it seems like Christians (in the U.S. at least) are the only persecuted MAJORITY in the history of the world. Walk a mile in my shoes.

[SeanD]

All I can say is WOW!I haven't been on the trader for a couple of days but I see I have struck up quite a chord.

You're surprised that putting your religious beliefs on a public forum generated a discussion? Seriously?

The War on Christmas is one of the silliest myths generated in the last ten years. The Christmas holiday is in every single aspect of our public lives. You can't go anywhere without having a sensory overload. I celebrate Christmas and at no time in my entire life have I ever felt like I've been getting shorted on the holiday. So, a town decided that school busses can stay yellow without hurting the Christmas spirit. Good for them.

Calling the city Christmas tree (which it is) a holiday tree is what keeps it up. The word "holiday" is what allows communities to pass off Christmas celebration as something for everyone. Be careful what you wish for. As soon as it goes back to being called a Christmas tree, it comes down.

Let's forget about striking chords and get back to striking cords.

Sean

[maple connection]

If we can show a little respect for others.
I think I can say Merry Christmas to all and a happy new year!!
p.s. about 70 more days until the sap will be flowing!!!!

[slammer3364]

Yes I have seen all this about a Holiday tree which should be called a Christmas tree.During this hunting season in Pa. (which you cant call hunting season anymore) I did some contemplating about the constitution,We the people to form a more perfect union,it does not matter if they are dems. reps. or Tea Party it falls upon us WE the people. Our three greatest heritages that this great country was founded upon,religous freedom,farming (maple syruping) and hunting (freedom to bear arms) are all going down the sewer.No prayer in schools,factory farming controled by giant chain stores, and no game to hunt. Eventually no one will hunt so why do you need weapons GONE. You can by everyuthing from the big giants so there is no need to raise your own food,and lastly the few MONARCHS that control the governments say they can supply all our needs so there will be no need for prayer Church or God. WE THE PEOPLE TO FORM A MORE PERFECT UNION. Its time to wake up people the balls in our court. HAVE BLESSED AND MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!! Slammer