Solar energy for the sugarhouse.

[red maples]

So I am seriously considering going solar for the sugarhouse. I don't require that much energy just like everyone else a few pumps small vac pump, possibly an RO in the future. maybe a small water heater. So starting to look into some options and was wonder what other guys have used for solar and where they got there stuff from? It needs to battery driven 100% off grid. Somewhat easy to install I can do some stuff and if I don't know I can figure it out very handy with contruction stuff. And something that I can slowly add onto as I need more power. even if I can start out with a few lights maybe 1 pump and grow from there.

The first one I looked at is in the northern tool catalog. by Npower 1800 watts system with 30" x 33" panel and 1500 watt inverter, 60 Ah battery. the system is about $1400.00

So as I learn a more about this what should I be looking for? and what price ranges can I expect.

Any help would be great. thanks

[western mainer]

My house and sugar house is off the grid and I have bought my panels here http://www.mrsolar.com/ I have 800 AH at 20 hours at 24 volts batteries, a 4000w inverter and 1320 w of panels and that's not large enough.
I would buy from N tools With all the thing you want you will be spending at least 8-$10,000. You need to start here http://www.mrsolar.com/content/off-grid-calculator.php This will help you size what you need. Go to this forum to get some good info. http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/ I looked at the N tool panels and if you read it close there are 2 panels 100w each at 12 volts. You will want to get set up with
24 or 48 volt.

[highlandcattle]

I have written many stories here about our adventure in off grid living. We participate in the National Solar Home Tours/ Green Buildings. Check out that site. See New England Solar and Electric for their website. we did this all ourselves with NO background and we're in our 60's! You are trying to run too much with a little system, won't work. We've been off grid since 2003. Cost about $8,000.00 for our 24 volt system. 2 microturbines and 6 big panels.plus 12 batteries, etc. 3624 watt modified sine wave inverter. There is alot to research and know before jumping in. This will be right about $10,000.00 for what you are trying to do. Start small and build up. You will see how mu'h junk you don;t really need. Our place looks like a regular house(we designed and built it dirt cheap), give a call if we can help. It's very doable!!! Good luck.

[red maples]

the one that I was looking at is way too small. its not the 12v its this one but stil way too small the batteery is good for a few lights but not enough for any pump for any length of time. http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200480563_200480563

I don't know It might be a little down the road before I go solar for the sugarhouse. kinda still waiting for the technology to get cheaper. some one will come up with stuff cheaper I read about some stuff a few months ago that is a plastic matts that basically come rolled up. and you can set them up how ever you want. on ply wood, metal, driectly to a structure and jut run the wires into a box and into the battery or grid system. and I don't remember but it was very cheap! well compared to other options anyway. but anyway keeping my options open and still looking and researching. gotta make alot more syrup to justify $8000 electrical system!!!

[western mainer]

The solar panels I bought 9 years ago were $975 each, two years ago we bought 2 more they were $740, now they are around $550 each, so things are coming down,But I don't see them dropping much more.
Brian

[red maples]

it will once it becomes more stream line. my grandfather had to the first everything!!! VCR's he paid $900 for 1, microwaves once they came in the market he had to be the first I think he paid like 1200 or something the newer tech TV's $3000 when they first came and that was plazma now plazma TV's are 5-600 for a good one. so I will give it a little more time. I will do it eventually but I have a few other priorities first that need attention.

[maple flats]

Highland is right on.
I have 1520 watts solar to run the sugarhouse and I need to use the generator often. Solar IS EXPENSIVE! But, the prices keep dropping. If you think you will ever go grid tied get everything UL now. You can not grid tie if the entire system is not UL. My system is composed of 8 x 185 watts Kyocera panels, an 80 amp MPPT charge controller and a240 AH 48V battery bank. From that I go thru a main disconnect and to a 6000 watt XW6048 inverter. The inverter alone was $3400. My first 4 panels cost $425 ea. (2009) and I added 4 this past summer at $350 ea. My weak link right now is the battery bank but old batteries don't play well with new ones, thus I must wait for the current bank to fail before I get a bigger bank. I should have at lease 1100 AH @ 48V. Batteries are the most expensive since you only get about 7 years from the type I have. Be careful what batteries you buy. I have trojans, 240 AH @ 6v each. They are all in series for the 48V. You are best off getting batteries that can be connected in 1 series string because parallel strings do not charge equally. Check out Rolls Surrette, they will, if sized correctly give you about 10 years. Some people use fork truck batteries, but they are not really designed for solar. They do best by far by charging them fully and then using them until they are at about 80% DOD ( depth of discharge) before recharging. Different battery chemistry. Solar needs batteries designed to be charged as often as you have sun and must be able to have a reserve to last until you next have sun and still not be below 50% DOD. My system requires me to run the generator often to stay above that 50% DOD.
I run 360 watts lighting and a 140 watt high pressure blower. Those run anytime I am boiling. For short times I run the filter press, both to filter syrup and also to move syrup from one step to the next (draw off, finisher, filter, canner) I also run a auto draw but don't know the watts, but it is small. With just the lights and blower I can run all day if it is sunny but I need to run the generator in about 1 hr of dark, the other things require me to start the generator to run them.
You want to study your needs and set up a battery bank to handle it. A 12V can only run very limited power, 24 gets better, 36 and 48 even better. For a charge controller don't monkey around with a PWM controller (pulse width modulation), get a MPPT (maximum power point tracking) one. The difference is efficiency. PWM = up to 50% and MPPT about 90%+. For a inverter get a true sine wave and not a modified sine wave. The true sine wave are much cleaner power, like grid wave form, the modified sine wave are a square wave form and many electric devices don't work well if at all with the modified. Anything you see in Harbor Freight or Northern Hydraulics is over priced and the wrong type. Try this link for panels http://www.ecobusinesslinks.com/solar_panels.htm If you can buy every panel you might ever need now, consider Evergreen, but only if you meet that requirement. Evergreen has gone under and you will not be able to get any more. Also, you can not mix panels. It seems like you could get several different brands but you can not mix. The panel specs must match exactly to mate them. If you mate mismatched panels you will not get anywhere near the cumulative rated wattage. In some cases combining 2 mismatched panels looses almost all of the wattage of one of the panels.
Take some time and study solar. I learned the hard way. When I started I bought 2 non UL panels @ 150 watts each, a PWM charge controller, and a cheap inverter. They were all made in China. The inverter was rated at 2500 watts continuous and 5000 watts surge @ 240V. What I failed to find out first, it would only run 240V and could not be split into 2- 120V legs, then I had to buy a transformer to give me 120V. Even with that the 4 batteries (x6V ea) in series did not hold enough power and I could not run more than just my lights and blower and then only if the sun was full at the moment. On a cloudy day I could only run about 15 minutes on battery before it shut down. Every other thing required my generator and the 2 could not be run together. So I had to shut off the solar and hook the lights to the gen to run anything more than the lights.
Good luck, solar can be good if you study first.

[Tweegs]

Brad,
I’m in pretty much the same boat as you are. The (proposed) shack is too far from an electrical source.
Here is what I’m planning to do, see if it might work for you, too.

I’m going to use solar power for simple lighting only, initially. This will require a smaller panel, a handful of LED lights (incandescent or florescent bulbs require an inverter which has inherent loss: read wasted power), a marine grade, deep cycle, AGM battery of around 200 Ah, and a battery charge regulator.
That’s plenty of reserve to run lighting well into the dark, and still have room for a car radio for a little noise in the shack.

The vac pump will be located in the barn, I’ll need about 800 feet of dry line tubing to reach the releaser out near the shack.
The whole set-up will be a bunch cheaper than sizing a solar system to handle it all, and still quite a bit cheaper than running electricity to the shack.

Since I’m not yet licensed, I don’t have to worry about the ag dept. having a hissy about using condensate from the preheater for clean-up. When I go for licensing though, I’ll need to add an RV type water system. The pump may or may not require me to add an additional battery in parallel with the original. Propane can be used for the water heater and bottler. Throw in a gas powered sap transfer pump and you’re golden.

[red maples]

for me my shack is about 200 ft from the house I would just to use the solar. I run extension cords right now and put in a few breakers and out door outlets just for the SH extention cords. So at this point I am in no rush. I have plenty of room on my house 200 amp system for out buildings. So maybe for now run a 60 amps into the SH which is more than enough for what need right now. we'll see. For NH they I don't require water in the SH but to get the NH quality seal I need water which I will eventually becasue its really a pain to lug water to the SH everyday. I may just set up a slightly under ground system using black water pipe and a heat cable inside of a conduit or something. just for the winter. not sure what I am gonna do yet. I don't need water there 7/365 only during sugaring season. So we'll see what happens I'll figure it out as I go!!!

[kboyer]

How many amps do you need to have in the sugar house to run some lights, have a few out lets, and run the evaporator blower?

[highlandcattle]

Going off grid is a real life changing experience. We bought this property in 1996, raw land, about 1,200 feet from the nearest power pole and then another $10,000.00 to run underground wire. We began with generators then after seeing a friends new solar home we started with $5,000.00 and then just kept adding. We have about 2,000 watts for the house and barn, generator backup on low days for just a few minutes. It's been well worth it. Sap house has it's own little system. These are cheap and can be found on Harbor Freight or Northern Hydraulics or other on line sites. We have made a few adjustments to our lifestyle, but nothing drastic. Right now our windmills are spinning. so more power! We have a nice sized home that we designed and built(on going project) and no one would guess that we are solar powered unless we show them! So. very doable and affordable if you research and keep things in perspective. Glad to see others doing this! Happy sapping!

[Tweegs]

That depends greatly Kboyer.

How many lights, what do you plan to plug into the outlets, and how big is the blower motor?

You can use this calculator to figure the load of each device:
http://www.supercircuits.com/resources/tools/Volts-Watts-Amps-Converter
Example: one 60W bulb operated at 120 volts will draw ½ amp.
When calculating a load for a motor, use the start-up load, not the running load.
Wire has loss, just to keep numbers easy, I figure 1 amp per 100 feet of wire (that’s way overkill).
Add all of your loads together, including at least two of the highest power consumers you plan to plug into the outlets, then add 20%. The sum will be the minimum amount of current you need.

[Brent]

In my opinion you're dreaming in techicolor if you think you can get enough solar power in Feb/Mar to recover what you're planning to run. Don't waste any more time on it. Get a generator.

but if you win a lottery ............