275 gallon oil tank evaporator pan question

[spencer11]

I am using a 275 gal. Oil tank as an evaporator this year and I plan on using 6 steam table pans. I don't know weather to drop them in all the way to the top lip, or to put them on a metal plate? I could also make a frame and set the pans down into the fire about and inch or two? Last year I had the pans set all the way down into the fire on my block arch and it burned on the sides.

Any help welcome

[Ausable]

Howdy Spencer - As You know - most steam table pans are tapered. By dropping them down into the fire - like You did on your block arch - You had a type of drop flue. The sides of your pans were exposed to the fire making for more heating surface and a faster boiling rate - I would think. Were you able to control things at the syrup end of your pans with everything down in the fire? Did You scoop or dip your syrup out of the last pan or do you have a drawoff valve? I'm getting ahead of myself - are your pans all inter-connected with piping or do you dip from pan to pan? ------Mike

[spencer11]

I dipped from pan to pan. And thats what I planed on doing for next season. I didn't know abot how to mount the pans to the arch. I want a good boil but if the pans are directly in the fire the sugar burns on the side/

Spencer

[Ausable]

That is why the syrup pans are normally flat and the sap pans are the ones with raised or drop flues. I see your problem - If you take advantage of a harder boil by having your pans in the fire - it raises hob at the syrup end - to much heat. If you raise your pans so that the heat is mainly on the bottom - it slows down the boil. I know you are trying to keep the setup as simple and cost effective as possible. I wonder if your idea of lowering the pans only a few inches into the fire would work --- a compromise of the two extremes. Worth a try. -----Mike----

[spencer11]

I just don't want to spend the money on a steel plate take my time to cut the holes to the right size and then weld it on to have it not work and have to start over with something else. I think I'm going to build a flat stock frame and use angle iron to raise the pan an inch or two. I am going to have 4- 4 inch deep pans and then my my 2 inch deep ones from last yalear to use do you think I should get 2-6 inch deep pans to get the extra depth?

Spencer

[SevenCreeksSap]

Since you are building it and are dipping from pan to pan, could you fix it up so your sap pans are deeper into the fire, and if you are having trouble with your final pan can you build it so only the bottom of that front pan comes in contact with your fire? I had the same problem but only had one pan, down into the fire and it burned along the top edge of the sap line.

[spencer11]

So maybe I'll try that. I'll put my 4 rear pans down into the fire and prop my front one up out an inch or two. Should I just do this when I'm down to my 2 front pans or all the time?

Spencer

[Ausable]

So maybe I'll try that. I'll put my 4 rear pans down into the fire and prop my front one up out an inch or two. Should I just do this when I'm down to my 2 front pans or all the time?

Spencer

Spencer11 -- I have to learn not to read your posts........Ya make me start to think and I aint really equipped for it. So - now the world famous Spencer11 Arch and Evaporator Pans are born........ We all use shims to level things up unless we be blessed... Make a frame that will contain all your pans - Shim the back of your arch up about 4" and then under the pan frame and above the arch - Ya shim that up about 4". Now your pans should be level - with the sap pans 4" lower into the arch then the front syrup pans and ta-da No more syrup scorching.........And another bonus is the improved heat transfer the Front-tilt Spencer11 Arch has - ------Hmmmmmm! told you not to make me think ---this idea is even starting to scare me -----Mike----

[spencer11]

Well I'm working on building it. I'll try and post pics next week or sometime soon.

Spencer

[Ausable]

Please Spencer ---- Don't use my bad idea - I was just kidding.....Really I'm not sure how to solve your problem with those pans - I really have gave it some thought and everything I come up with - seems to shoot itself down. Being the pans are not inter-connected it is kind of like having four batch pans going at once. Dipping from pan to pan to try to get a flo-thru effect seems like a lot of work. Why not inter-connect with piping if you have a welder friend - so you can put sap in one end and the sap - syrup can snake thru from pan to pan and have a draw-off valve on the last (syrup) pan. Boil at the pan height in your arch that seems to be the most efficient......

[spencer11]

I'm just gonna build a frame and stick the pans down in it. I'm only going to use this evaporator for this season so I don't want to spend more money on connecting all the pans. I know that some sugar will burn on the sides but I would rather get a better evaporation rate.

Spencer

[mike z]

I worked a multi pan set up for 5 years; the pans did burn on the sides, but surprisingly didn't seem to darken the syrup very much or give a burnt taste. I say keep it simple for now and sink the pans for a faster evap rate.

[spencer11]

Ok thanks mile that's kinda what I thought. How big of a difference of an evaporation rate does it make if there all the way in?

Spencer

[spencer11]

Sorry I haven't been able to get some pics up of my evaporator being built. I've just been so busy with other things and haven't had time to get the steel needed. I will try and get some up by next weekend. I should be getting the steel this week for it.

[Ozy]

You could use square tubing to support the syrup pan say 1inch higher to help the burning in the most important pan, not too hard to fit around the pan, easier than trying to cut the right size hole.

[spencer11]

thats a good idea. im gonna do that. i wasnt sure if i use a steel sheet and cut holes in it or build a steel frame, if it would get to hot and warp or bend? and is the frame or the sheet with holes a better idea? the frame design would be a little cheaper but harder to build...

[smokeyamber]

I run a barrel setup with 6" deep pans and have done the dipping thing for moving it. A couple of ideas to add to your project. Do a search for the posts on the siphon setup for connecting pans, it looks really easy to make and would cut down on the dipping. My solution was always to not move the back sap much and just keep adding there and only move to the front to keep it form getting too low. I ran pretty deep in the back pan so this probally wasn't real efficient, but the nice thing about this setup that you likely know is you can load it up fill the pans and go get something to eat. With the deep pans it is less likely to boil everything away and burn it. In fact I would often fill all the pans to the very top, load the firebox and go to bed. Come back in the morning to pans with a couple of inches in them.

Only downside is I had such a slow boil rate that 21hr boil times did happen.

This year I am hoping to build a new pan from steel and go with a flat pan on top. Also build a flue pan with copper tubes like RileySugarbush. If this happens I will have to learn the "real" way to run an evaporator ( i.e. on the hairy edge of burning pans :o)

Final suggestion is you could just build a mild steel pan ( very cheap ) and run it for a season. You can solder it up with lead free silver solder and even put dividers in it.

Either way you will have fun boiling and time in the shack is good !

[spencer11]

here are some pics of what i have so far. with my pan mock up. just need some angle and start welding. i am droping the pans down in the fire. the front 4 pans are 4" deep and th last(black) 2 pans are 2" deep, those 2 are from last year on my my small block arch. hope the pics work.4959496049614962

[Etown Maple Syrup]

I like your ideas! Somewhere I have photos of my oil tank build and pans. Where did I put those? I'll get back to you. It has been a busy Christmas!

[spencer11]

pics would be awesome. i should be working on mine more in the next week and can get some pics up.

spencer

[Etown Maple Syrup]

49814982498349794980
Hopefully you can see the pan rails and cross bracing. I have 4- six inch deep hotel pans lined up. The fire licks the bottom of the pans. I scoop from back to front in a batch style adding fresh/cold sap to the back as a pre heater. I layer fire bricks to reduce the space below the back two pans. The pans sit on rope to keep the fire moving out the stack not the sides.

[spencer11]

i think thats pretty much what im gonna do with mine. i have 6 pans though. 2-2.5 inch ones and 4-4inch deep ones.i will try and get pics up soon,im still waiting on steel.

[spencer11]

tested mine out this morning. got 15 gph. it works awesome. here are some pics.502450255026

[500592]

You should drill some holes in the rear pans and do what rileysurgarbush did and soldEr copper drop tubes I am sure he or someone else could explain it better

[spencer11]

i know what you mean with the copper tubes. i have seen a couple like mine with them and i have thought about doing it and i might...i am only planning on using this evaporator this season, next season im gonna build one like it but with real pans and a flue pan. the way it sits i am getting 15 gph+ with no fire brick. i bet with drop tubes and fire brick i could get it well above 20 gph.

spencer

[Ausable]

Spencer 11 - Looks like You are coming along just fine - Looking at Your evaporator making steam is getting this Old Boy all excited for the coming Season. It is looking good - best of luck -----Mike-----

[spencer11]

im getting really exited to. cant wait to get some sap and boil. it made alot more steam than i thought it would and took a long time to get going and cool down to.
spencer

[ckkrotz]

you said you haven't fire bricked it? How hot was it to be standing near it? We are planning on building something similar and don't know if we will have the money to fire brick it.

[spencer11]

it was extreamly hot standing next to it, i was wearing jeans and it was like my jeans were burning my legs. i would highly recoment fire bricking it. im gonna get some and put it in. you could come take a look at it sometime if you want to to get some ideas for yours.

spencer

[rookie]

I wound up getting enough fire brick to brick the whole 275 oil tank evap I plan to start building soon from lowes in claremont for 40 cents a piece when they were going out of business :) Just got to get that arch built soon, or i'll be boiling with my old 2x2 flat pan instead of my new 2x4 divided pan that the wife got me as a gift :) gotta get moving!!!

[spencer11]

do you know how much fire brick normally is at lowes or home depot. it is 2.50 on leader which seems expensive to me.

spencer

[Pete S]

I'd search Craigslist for a deal first.

[spencer11]

i found some for sale in derry, nh. its 100 sq. ft. of 4"x8" brick for $100. should work and i should have more fo next year in my new evaporator.

spencer

[rookie]

it was the half brick that i got and i can't be sure but i think it was around $1.40 a peice home depot (in claremont) doesn't have them not sure about concord

[spencer11]

i just found some on craigs list. i might get all of it or some of it.

spencer