Adding a second membrane and thinking two xle4040 would be better option?

[HazensNotchSugarShack]

I have one nf270-4040 now on a waterguy ro and found it to plug up sooner than I liked. I am adding a second membrane and may upgrade from my 1hp pump to a 1 1/2hp pump (my feed pump is a 1hp Gould). I read that the nf270 pass sugar at higher concentrations. How high I am looking to go to 12% this year. Now if I use my 1hp pump am I better off going with two xle-4040 which operate efficiently at lower pressure and don't passs as much sugar as the nf270. Should the second membrane be parallel or in series. I am thinking in series. Anyone know how and where to install a recirculation pump which would extend the life before fouling. Thanks for any help! Rick

[Brent]

The XLE-4040 should be better. Nano Filteration membranes "NF" have been found to pass potassium by the big Quebec association that markets all commercial Quebec syrup. The depleted amount of potassium in the syrup had a detrimental effect on the flavor, according to them. The XLE is a true RO not an NF.

For what its worth my 150 GPH RO ran like a 180 GPH at 8% after changing to a pair of XLE-4040s. It uses 1Hp and 3Hp motors. The high pressure pump has been modified so that there are two intakes, one from that raw sap at the bottom and one in a recirculation system about 1/3 of the way up that stack of stages. I've been toying with the idea of adding a 3rd membrane. I know I'll get a pressure drop, it now runs at 300psi. I can't get any advice on how to run the 3rd membrane, in parallel or in series. The two originals are in series.

[danno]

Brent - is 300 your max PSI on that 3 hp pump, or are your canisters maxed out at 300? I think you should be able to go to higher pressures, and thus not worry about pressure drop if you add a canister or two. I started with 4 old osmonics membranes and went down to two 4040's last year - I could go up to 600 psi on my 3 hp. I usually keep it under 400 as I was concerned about plugging the membranes. I was told if I went to one 8" membrane, I would need a 5 hp.

I had a thread on here last year about adding a recirc pump/line if you want to look back. Don't think there were many reponses.

[Brent]

Hi Danno
300 psi is the factory spec max. The Airablo is the same as the Springteck 150 GPH unit. Made in the same shop in Quebec that is.

the plumbing on this rig has a recirculation line already and my run times until I need to wash have been great since the XLE's. I started doing the washes after
4 hours but just at the end of the season I was extending this a bit with very little drop in the flows. I think if I add a 3rd membrane and the pressure drops to the 250-275 range, the fouling will be a bit less and the run times a bit longer. With the original 2 membranes in series, it's a real head scratcher for me to figure how to plumb the 3rd one. D&G bought Airablo recently and they won't help. They won't even quote me a new cannister so I'd have to got to the aftermarket ( Joe ) and reading between the lines from my emails with him, his vessels do not have the port part way up the wall for the recirc circuit. D&G offered me a decent trade to upgrade, but then I get into the rest of the mess with power upgrades in the sugar shack. I only need about a 1/4 to 1/3 increase in output from the RO and it would keep up with the evaporator ... or at least it would have given the way I fired it last year. I expect to be boiling harder this year with new AOF and more confidence. Still scratching my head about what to do.

[danno]

If it helps, my RO was originally 2 vessels. The story I was told was that manu. (Sap Brothers) came back after 1st or 2nd year and retrofitted these units with 2
more 4" vessels - all in series. If I were you and you could upgrade fairly reasonably to a 500 machine or something with one 8" membrane, that's the way I'd go. But then again, I've a 3x10, so I can't even start thinking about boiling until I've got quite a bit of concentrate on hand.

[Brent]

If it wasn't for the limited power, I think I'd do that.

[HazensNotchSugarShack]

[QUOTE=Brent;165770]The XLE-4040 should be better. Nano Filteration membranes "NF" have been found to pass potassium by the big Quebec association that markets all commercial Quebec syrup. The depleted amount of potassium in the syrup had a detrimental effect on the flavor, according to them. The XLE is a true RO not an NF.

For what its worth my 150 GPH RO ran like a 180 GPH at 8% after changing to a pair of XLE-4040s.

Brent: What did you run before the XLE-4040's! Do you have a picture of how high up the vessel the recirc line is attached. and is it only on one of the vessels?
Thanks Rick