Auto draw off

[Howard]

I am thinking off a auto draw, but not sure what type to purchase. I have a 2.5x10 and consentrating to 18%. I am firing the rig , drawing off and pressing. No room for error. Thoughts welcome.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

I was in a similar situation. Bought the Marcland with no bells and whistles. What a labor saver. Go for it!

[Haynes Forest Products]

I got the one with all the bells and whistles made by Marcland. l love it I use oil so I set it up to shut the burner off if the temps reach 3 points/degrees over. The thing about auto Anything is you shift the responability to another area. Now you need to keep eye on draw off container so you dont over flow it. You need to rermember to turn it from manuel to auto or you will hear the warning buzzer real quick. And last but not least dont remove drawoff bucket and go clean it without closing valve from auto to manuel:o

[Bruce L]

Just bought the Marcland with all the bells and whistles,figured I didn't want to spend time fooling around with a new rig boiling as fast as it will

[MorrillMaple]

got the new Belimo from CDL very simple to use

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

here check this one out. I don't know a whole lot about auto draws but this one can regulate the amount drawn off. The solenoid can be made to open full or drip so you dont surge the pan with fresh sap. heres a youtube link
http://youtu.be/t_mdYLqG_yk

[Haynes Forest Products]

Having 1 year with the Marcland and being the most inepte person when it comes to digital equipment I can say that its PLUG AND PLAY. You turn it on check your density with whatever meens possible and then you set the desired temp that you want it open at...........BINGO BANGO.
If your multi tasking and the temp goes 3 points over a buzzer warns you and there is a plug on the side that can be used to activate a Normally closed relay shutting down the burner or over fire blower.
When it comes to selonoids I went with the one that is shown on the Youtube. Mine is an Ebay $57.00 3/4 SS and worked without fail. I told the manf. That it was for food prep and gravity pressures and they put a differant spring in it. Holding back 100 PSI liquids takes a different spring.
Now what Im going to do differant Im going with a modulation hydronic heat zone valve next year. Its the one that Marcland recomends and sells. WHY because the plunger type spring loaded magnetic selonoid shuts to fast trapping solids in the diapraghm. I had to take it appart at least once a day to remove things that got caught making the valve drip.
The Hydronic Honeywell style valve opens and closes with a small electric motor a small ball against a sealing surface. Its NOT a ball valve. It has a 23 second cycle time from closed to full open the back to close. Because they are made for heating you dont want water surging thru the pipes every time the zone opens. BUT CHUCK.....23 seconds is a long time I cant draw off for that long It will empty my pans...............RELAX Thats what I thought too.....What happens is as it slowly opens finished syrup exits and the probe reacts to the temp and it closes and that could happen in 5 second so the valve only opened slightly and then closed again. PERFECT. I regulate the flow with a ball valve now so I dont get surging and hope to eliminate the valve

[Brad W Wi]

I have a Marcland for 3 years now. It's got all the bells and whistles. Do I love it! It makes life alot easier. But you do have to watch it. The probe cakes up with sugar so when switching draw off sides I make sure I clean it good. Being a belt and suspenders type of guy I do have a spare probe. And I will switch it to open manually just to make sure it doesn't stick. It never has yet, but I'm just one of those types.

[sweetscotty]

there is no draw off like the CDL thermo-regulating draw off, it dosnt use the old plunger style where when it opens it opens a full pipe. This CDL has a high quality s/s butterfly valve that modulates which in return makes a constant draw off I boil on a 4x13 oil at 16% concentrate and this draw off draws a steady stream of syrup the whole time Im boiling.the great thing about constant draw is that it will help nitre in your syrup pans

[Haynes Forest Products]

Scotty would you say there is a difference between a 3 X 10 Evap running 2 percent and 4 x 13 running 16%.............Would you recommend the same valve. I can also get a solid steady stream coming out of my 3 x 10 by putting a ball valve after the solenoid. Its a crappy little solid stream:emb: So Apples To Apples isn't always the same for everyone.

[sweetscotty]

i guess if you want that much stuff hanging off your pans, maybe you would consider the hobby draw off its compact and a bit cheaper. And I was thinking you were making concentrate,still works the same as a larger draw off. there just real simple and easy to clean. with digital them. and ferrual fittings

[Haynes Forest Products]

I have the full feature Marcland

[markct]

what is the hobby drawoff? i never heard of this

[Grade "A"]

what is the hobby drawoff? i never heard of this

The one that Flat Lander has a link to is a maple guru. The guy I talked to the other day said they were around $300.

[Howard]

Thanks, Everyone. Great info. I'm leaning towards the CDL. I like the idea off the butterfly. But will look closely at each of them. Howard

[Dennis H.]

Hay Haynes do you know the model number for the Honeywell zone valve??
I have looked and can not for the life of me find any valve that isn't a diaphram type.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Dennis If you go to Honeywell zone valves you will finds all sorts of them. Now you want the 110 volt. I'm checking to see if you use the 4 wire and or if they make a 2 wire. The 4 wire is for a circulator pump so you don't need that feature.
Has Jim Gotten off his butt and hobbled around and finished your hood yet?

[Dennis H.]

I think Jim went off to Mexico for a while:D. Kinda took the money and ran.:lol:
You know try and "recuperate" while being taken care of with beverages and such delievered right to his beach chair!!:o
Just think of all the attention that he would get with that "big nasty cut":cry:

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

The one that Flat Lander has a link to is a maple guru. The guy I talked to the other day said they were around $300.

they say there is a link on the barbque guru site but cant find it. I emailed them, waiting to hear back. Like I said I think its cool that it will only open up to what you want not just WOT"racing terminology"

[Grade "A"]

[QUOTE=Flat Lander Sugaring;160440]they say there is a link on the barbque guru site but cant find it. I emailed them, waiting to hear back. Like I said I think its cool that it will only open up to what you want not just WOT"racing terminology"[/QUOTE

I got a flyer from them and it says to go to mapleguru.com but it did not come up for me.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

well here is the reply I received
From: BBQ Customer Service <customerservice@thebbqguru.com>
To: rusty johnson <pfdfiredog18@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 8:58 AM
Subject: RE: auto draw for maple sugaring


Rusty, Thank you for asking about our product. Rick Surette is our distributor for the product. He can be reached at 603-918-6962. You can also call DJ Walkey at 603-832-3090.





BOB TRUDNAK

Director of Marketing

The BBQ Guru

Web: www.thebbqguru.com.com

Email: bbqbob@thebbqguru.com

PH: 1 800 288 4878 ext. 207

[Dennis H.]

I have been doing a boat load of searching on the web to find motorized ball valves.
I have found a few but are very $$$$

There is one that I found that is shown on a youtube video. That valve has 3 wires. A common and one wire for each direction. It takes about 10 sec to fully open or close. The nice thing I see in this type would be that as the temp controller tells the valve to open it may never fully open before it would then start to close. I think that woth this slower opening and closeing that it would help prevent the surging in the syrup pan.

Most others that I could get any info on the valves will close automaticlly when power is removed. Maybe there wouldn't be any problems with that. Heck maybe that may even be a good thing. If power should go out for any reason the valve will close on it own so the sugarshack won't be flooding with syrup.

What I am working on is using a PID controller from Auber then getting a motorized valve, very simple setup and I should be able to do this for well under $200 with.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Dennis they are not your typical BALL valves. they have a small ball that is connected to a heavey wire lever that slowly opens with a motor. Just google honeywell zone valve they are square and have a brass body Sweat or threaded. The motor is replaceable.

[markct]

so has anyone tried the maple guru? it looks like a good thing but i gota wonder if it realy can work that well for much less money? also does anyone know if if has a hi temp alarm, like beeps etc if the valve hangs and temp climbs?

[Haynes Forest Products]

Remember you still need a temp probe and solenoid.

[Dennis H.]

Thanks Haynes for the description of the Honeywell valve. I think I found what you are talking about. Kind of an odd type of valve. It looks like the ball doesn't just rotate but sort of rotates away from the seat of the valve when it opens. I have to now try and find a price for them. I want to compare them with another vavle that I found while looking for the Honeywell

It is a 3/4" SS motorized ball valve at www.oscsys.com for $61. It does run on 12VDC so a power supply will be needed. But I already a bunch of surplus power supplies laying around.
It doesn't have auto close so I would have to make sure that I had power all the time.
And a PID controller from Auber for $47, RTD Probe $27, Case and Probe plug $26.

So that will put me right around $165. Oh yeah I forgot shipping fees so add another maybe $15-20

[Haynes Forest Products]

Dennis I like the valve No I love the valve $51.00 I'm sitting here thinking about what I can make. I didn't go into the open and close rate. Now my question is will the PID do a open and close option. The valve you are looking at has to energize to open and energize to close. My solenoid is normally closed and needs to be energized to open. Its spring loaded so it will close when power is off. You need to put some bells and whistles. I will get the site for some nice cheap buzzers that lite up for your draw off cycle and over temp. You need a outlet fer valve hookup and blower shut down. Lets get fancy.

[Shaun]

I just put together an auto draw off with most of the parts ordered from Auber instruments. The PID controller that I used has a solid state relay option and two alarm outputs which can be wired NO or NC. It was around the 45 dollar range. This model has an on off control mode. The model was a SYL-2362. They have cheap buzzer alarms and a solid state relay that was 15 dollars. I put a high temp buzzer alarm and a High high temp blower shut down or oil gun. The alarm outputs are rated for 3 amps, so I put in what they call a ice cube relay rated for 12 amps. Also with a toggle swith it has an auto and manual mode. I have limited expierence with these things and it was not that bad to put together. Wiring a solid state relay the load must be before the relay, the relay swithes the neutral wire. I still looked the other way when I first powered it up, It didn't make any sparks. I can post a few pictures, I'm pretty happy with it.

[Howard]

Between, Haynes,Dennis and Shaun, now you have me thinking. Can I actually make one of these. I'm not electrical minded at all. But I do know Neg from positive. I'm not afraid to pay dealer prices for a unit out of the cataloge. But I would have greater satisfaction knowing I made it my self.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I have had both good and bad experiences with PID controller suppliers. First I got one off ebay and when I called and talked to the head teck support guy I felt like I was sitting in a diesel truck during a thunders storm at the drive up speaker at a Chinese burger joint. Now when I got my time delay relay from Grainger they walked me thru every connection, contact number and what it would do. I got a htc Droid phone last month and every time I use it I screw up or add something I don't want. Then I need my 11 year old to fix it.

[Shaun]

Funny thing is I won't be making syrup on this new to me evaporator for a year or two. I'll have to stick to a handful of taps and some blocks for a little while. This was something I made to cure the maple itch, if you know what I mean. I have not ordered a valve yet, You will have to keep us posted on the zone valves ETC.

I made a set of one handed tubing pliers the other day. Thanks to all the pictures and posts on the trader. STILL ITCHING

[Dennis H.]

I will be getting my PID conreoller thru Auberins. They are right here in the USA so tech support shouldn't be a problem. I can find them a little cheaper on ebay and also thru www.lightobject.com but I think I will still go thru Auberins.
I have read the manual for them and I think once I have one in hand and have it set up on a bench it will be easy to set all the parameters. Even and over temp alarm and lights, Just for Haynes. He needs bells and whistles.

I am now leaning toward the PID controller that is for 12-24VDC. I will need a power supply but I really want to use the 12VDC motorized Ball valve that I found thru www.oscsys.com. As long as I start my designing with 12VDC in mind it should not be an issue.

[western mainer]

If you look at the specs max temp is 100 degrees Celsius = 212 degrees Fahrenheit. And is it food grade?
Brian

[Howard]

Shaun, Could you post some pictures of the auto draw you have made?

[Shaun]

here are the pictures. I bought the RTD connector with 25 feet of wire so the unit could be out of harms way. As easy as it is to put more bells and whistles I wish I had a few more lights when drawing off ETC. I put a one amp fuse for the valve, I'm going to get some 10 amp ones and maybe build a smoker for the off season.

How long are the probes sold with the proffesional models?

[Haynes Forest Products]

About 12" Depending on the angle of the port. Now I stick mine in and after it hits I pull it back and lock the nut down on the collet. I like about 1/4" from pan bottom to probe. I dont try and pull the probe out without the nut and collet all in one. I also take a utility knife and scrape all the niter off. It is quick and easy.

[Brent]

Dennis
I think you'll get into a mess with that little valve plugging up with nitre flakes. When I first got my auto system I complained about the 1-1/2 ball vavle being too big and heavy. I put a 1" ball valve in front of it so I could have an emergency shut off and a flow rate modulation. The one in plugged up. The 1-1/2" did not. I suppose you could put a strainer in front of it but you'd need to be cleaning it pretty often.

[Haynes Forest Products]

You need to slow the flow down so you dont jackrabbit your draw offs. You are better off with smaller draws more frequently then one big one and then a 10 min wait time. Having a restricter valve after the solinoid valve is the way i was told to do it by Bob from Marcland.