Have you successfully built a medium pressure boiler?

[holey_bucket]

I am considering beginning to dabble in steam. I'm having trouble finding many folks that use steam for other than an industrial application. Have any of you built a boiler for a steam system? Is it possible for me to built one, SAFELY? Maybe I will end up having to buy one and modify it for a syrup operation... thanks!

[Gary R]

Safely and legally by your self? probably not feasible. How do you plan to power it? If it's electric, I could have some information.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I built a closed hot water preheater system that could be considerd a boiler. Am I qualifyed to make such systems NO NO NO. I can tell you that you must obey the laws of hot water or you will be sorry. Did my system have all the safe guards I thought it should...maybe. Did my system have failsafe controls NOPE. Did it ever start to rumble and shake the very pluming it was made out of YUP. Did the pressure relief ever blow spewing steam and hot water gushing to the evap room floor you got it. Did not turning on the circulator pump on the hot water side cause the water to super heat because there was no cooling action from the sap causing it to rumble and spit... Got it. Will the lack of sap flow thru the heat exchanger piss it off HECK YES. Can super heated steam...THE CLEAR STUFF along with flue gas melt copper fittings I do believe thats what happend:o
I **** caned the contraption for the new style drip tray and copper tubing preheater that Jim made for me.

[Dan W]

I think you are getting into something that could be way more than "potentially deadly". Steam can be VERY dangerous. Pressure vessels need to be properly constructed and certified. I work with boilers and their related equipment and other pressure vessels daily. I don't know anybody in the field that would attempt to make one from scratch. Even certified welders. I would consider another course of action.

[markct]

as much as i like gadgets and things, it seems way expensive to setup even a homemade steam boiler system for 40 to 50 taps? i think you would have better luck with making a nice hot tube type pan for your rear sap pan than constructing a boiler from scratch

[holey_bucket]

Well here's the thing. I want to burn biomass. I am working on designs to burn horse manure mixed with bedded sawdust. It burns as hot and twice as long as an equal sized piece of seasoned oak, and I have LOTS of it. (it can be formed into a shape in several different ways.) I can't burn this biomass in a traditional arch due to inspections and such. I will expand my taps as soon as I can have more boiling capacity. I have immediately available about 350 trees, and I could probably lease more. Thank you all for your input!

[markct]

what inspection says you cant burn it in a traditional arch? i mean folks burn oil, and thats not food grade, and i burn wood that i sure wouldnt eat my supper off of? just curious i never heard of this no horse poo rule maybe its just a michigan thing?

[Ausable]

I am considering beginning to dabble in steam. I'm having trouble finding many folks that use steam for other than an industrial application. Have any of you built a boiler for a steam system? Is it possible for me to built one, SAFELY? Maybe I will end up having to buy one and modify it for a syrup operation... thanks!

Hot water systems - like for heating you home and outbuildings is one thing - But getting into using steam is quite another. Haynes advice about some of the problems You will run into is very real. I operated Boilers in Electric Generating Plants for twelve years - with operating pressures of 800# and 2000#. There are systems layered onto systems for efficiency and safety. to maintain constant operating pressure and temperature the steam must always be moving and you have to have the ability to control your fuel flow to the boiler quickly. If the steam flow is reduced for some reason the pressure will quickly rise and the fire must be quickly reduced without loosing it --- to control pressure or all your various safety and pressure relief valves will lift and make a racket that is heard for miles --- I could go on - but - think You have the idea. Anything is possible and I'm not trying to discourage you - just a heads up is all - Mike

[holey_bucket]

Thanks Mike. That does sound troublesome. I think I'm beginning to see the answer to my problem. No steam system. I think my calculator says I would need about 247psia to achieve 400F saturated steam. Don't know if I would even need that much.

As for the other replies, I have read several posts on this forum - debates really, on the possibilities of using alternative energy sources. It's not necessarily the fact that it doesn't seem to be clearly defined in inspection codes... what would an inspector say if he saw a traditional arch burning horse manure? If it was put like that, what impact on the customer's decision to purchase? "its gross", maybe? Personally, I see no problem with it. If it was a separate heat location, it would be a great use of alternative fuel that wasn't necessarily a deterrent.

Thanks for your input, if you have ideas or challenging thoughts, please weigh in!

[wiam]

There is a guy near me that was boiling with steam. I do not know much about it other than there were steam pipes in the flat bottom pans that ran off from a very old, very large wood fired steam boiler. His primary use for the steam was the distillery. He made maple vodka among other types. I do not know if he is still using this. So i guess what I am saying is that it can be done, but I am not sure at what scale it makes sense.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Roth Sugar Bush heats their syrup tank/finisher. Its about a 800 gallon Dairy bulk tank. I'm wondering about if you separate the two operations. Feeding the fire in one room and boiling in the other. What I mean is if the arch doors are inside another room so the dust cant mix with the boiling process. I heat with oil and I don't get any questions about Hydrocarbons mixing with the product. Some states wont allow waste oil burners so I'm wondering if its the lead content. Just dont't run your horses on leaded fuel and you should be OK:rolleyes: What is the minimum heat that is required to boil water that is being replenished with cold water. I was told above 450 degrees to get it done........Because of heat loss.

[Ausable]

There is a guy near me that was boiling with steam. I do not know much about it other than there were steam pipes in the flat bottom pans that ran off from a very old, very large wood fired steam boiler. His primary use for the steam was the distillery. He made maple vodka among other types. I do not know if he is still using this. So i guess what I am saying is that it can be done, but I am not sure at what scale it makes sense.

If you just vent your steam off to the atmosphere after making a single pass or run very low pressure you could probably get away with it - But when I heard Medium Pressure Boiler my ears got all pointy and it all comes back to what pressure is the boiler running at. If you are recirculating your condensate you also have to be concerned about the quality of your boiler water - scale - etc - Boiler water is continually monitered for purity and run thru a demineralizer plant -- I'm getting boring - and that was about 30 years ago --Mike--

[Haynes Forest Products]

Now they run it thru a industrial RO:o Now he will need two of them:)

[Gary R]

A couple of years ago a similar thread was running. We posted some information on it. If you were to fire with electricity I have your solution. The company I work for sells and we maintain electric steam generators. We offer from 20KW to 180KW. They are a self contained unit. All the safety features required are on them. They are 100psi units. We do not recirculate the condensate. If your water quality is good, I've seen some of these run for a couple of years and nobody has ever touched them. We use these to operate steam sterilizers in hospitals and labs. When the units get replaced there just thrown away. There usually in good working order. If I had cheap electricity I'd probably try boil with one.

I've been in a sugar house that has a large gas fired boiler. I don't know the rating but it's as big as a pick up truck. It looks real scary too!

[holey_bucket]

Yea... if I can't burn biomass, I'll just burn wood. I'm not obsessed with steam, I've only considered it because I am planning on burning biomass to heat my home. I was thinking it would be nice to burn horse crap because it would be easier than cutting tons of wood. And, I have a lot of horse apples!

How do I find out exactly what things inspectors look for at a Michigan operation? (As far as the arch and "material handling"? Maybe I could build a full height barrier between the front face of the arch, with the pans and product basically behind glass.

[holey_bucket]

If you just vent your steam off to the atmosphere after making a single pass or run very low pressure you could probably get away with it - But when I heard Medium Pressure Boiler my ears got all pointy and it all comes back to what pressure is the boiler running at. If you are recirculating your condensate you also have to be concerned about the quality of your boiler water - scale - etc - Boiler water is continually monitered for purity and run thru a demineralizer plant -- I'm getting boring - and that was about 30 years ago --Mike--

The only reason I said medium pressure, I am reading documents that say anything over something like... 80 psi up to something like...250 psi was medium pressure. I don't remember exactly, but it was something like that.