Bernard Double Repair

[lew]

At the end of last season my Bernard double was leaking on one side. I would have a 3" difference between the 2 sides. never found the leak, so I am working on it now in the sugarhouse. I have hooked it up to an SP-11 (new to me) this is letting me check out the vacuum pump as well. I haven't found the leak that is bothering the one side, but I have found other leaks. The first leak may seem like a no-brainer to most, but I didn't realize how important the small O-ring on the float shaft was. I always knew that there was a small leak there, but I could never figure out why there was an O-ring on the shaft. On mine, when the float dropped into its lower position the O-ring never came down to the white block that the float shaft slides through. Fixed that by knocking the white plastic block that goes through the lids up about .1 inch and the O-rings seat perfectly. Gained 2". Next I looked at all the O-rings through out the releaser except the large ones under the lid. I replaced them and lubed them up. No Change. I was suspecting either the O-rings under the lid or the slide plate under the pipe that delivers the vacuum to the releaser. I greased up the slide plate without changing it and gained another 2", but still a 3" difference between the 2 sides. Tomorrow I will change the lid O-rings and see if that is the culprit. 1 other leak I found was in the "end plate" of the upper resevoir, the part where your mainlines attach. When there is a 3" difference in the 2 sides, this resevoir will fill part way up until the resevoir vacuum level is equal to the vacuum level in the main chamber. While this resevoir was half full I could easily see lots of air being sucked in. this wouldn't account for a difference in the 2 sides, but once this is ssealed up, maybe I'll gain another 2". Any thoughts on how to seal the "end plate"? I was thinking of sucking in some pipe glue from the outside. But how do you get the2 surfaces dry so the glue can work? Maybe silicone instead?

Any way, thats just a few of my observations. It sure was nice to be able to play with this in the off season and not be rushed and have all the tools you need right there. Normally the releaser sits 8 miles from the house.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I wouldn't glue or put silicone on the surface. You need to be able to pull it apart for cleaning. Have you replaced the O ring? I think the red ones are hollow. I have a small leak on the elbow O ring between the Manifold tank and sap tank. I taped it up during the season and let it go for now.

[lew]

Haynes,

I should have been more specific. the leak is on the end that is glued on, not the end with the O-ring.

[Haynes Forest Products]

OK I wouldn't use Silicone because it detaches over time and its a bitch to get out of the cracks if you decide to go a different route. I would call the manufacture and get a small container of the same clear glue. I would apply it to the areas while under low vacuum to get it into the cracks and then release the vac and allow to dry/harden.

[maplecrest]

i have used the doubles for years. the old style are better than the new ones. on the old style i have had all the same problems lew. the white sleeve do move and when thawing out or freezing is when that movement happens. alittle glue there will help.i use double o-rings on shaft. and lube as often as possible with the same stuff as for r/o. that solves leak on shaft going thru white sleeve, all so where the tube that the main lines come into, that slides onto the elbows of the double canisters is a leaker. is those o rings get rolled alittle those two seams will leak. i ended up glueing them. to solve the problem. again freezing and thawing works those places. and the little leak there freezes the elbow first. i found that the sc 40 is very thin and small cracks you cannot see also happen in freezing and expantion from thawing.wished they used sc 80. the new style that are bigger i ended up glueing all the joints to stop the leaks and that releaser was in a heated room and never froze.took a long time to stop leaks from start. at all the maple open houses this last spring i watched every releaser at every dealer for a long time and i saw vac leaks on every single one that was working. you could see the tiny bubbles some where in each one. haynes your right, i tryed it your way but when air makes ice glue is your best bet! the best glue to use is sc80 3 inch pipe and larger. dark grey in color. and i put it on under full vac.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Maplecrest I do like the heavy body Grey the blue red work nice BUT....they do look funky when its all over the place:emb: I like the option of pulling my unit apart to clean it so I have avoided the glue. I didnt know that it came apart at the elbows on the manifold until I was walking into the woods with it and it came apart falling on the ground:o

[lew]

Thanks for your input. I was thinking the same. I am waiting for a call back on what type of glue they used. I did find another problem with the releaser. the connecting rods that connect the float rods to the pivot arm. Not so much the connecting rods themselves, but the keepers that hold them in place after they pass throught the float rods. While I was testing for leaks and tearing the releaser apart a million times, I had taken these keepers off and made adjustments and tested and made adjustments and restest, etc, etc, etc. I never put the keepers back on until I thought I had everything in that area finished. Well I just put them back on and they hit the white sleeve through the lid before the O-ring on the float rods can even think of seating. So much for adjusting the sleeves. I will have to do what you said and put multiple O-rings on to enable a proper seat. I lost 2" of vacuum without that seat. That is with an SP11. I wonder how much of a loss I would get with the pump that is normally on this releaser (an Atlantic Fluidics A20)?

[lew]

Recieved my phone call and Mike told me that they just used regular pvc pipe cement. I dried out the manifold as best I could then put everything back together and put the vacuum to it to let air be pulled through the leak for 3 hours hoping this would dry the plastic inside the leak. I applied the glue with full vauum, 23", and kept applying after the vacuum was shut off, but still left over vacuum in the releaser. At first it seemed to work. the vacuum gauge came to a complete stop at 8 " and stayed there for 5 minutes, so I left thinking everything was sealed. I went back down and had to try it out about 4 hours later and it still leaks, not near as bad, but you can still see bubbles coming up through the sap. I think I will try a heavier bodied glue and put it on both sides and see what I get.

[maplecrest]

use the heavy grey sc 80 3 inch and above glue the regular will not work

[len]

An idea that came to mind is to use some primer to clean the joints out before using glue. Another idea is after glue is drawn from outside inward direction, a light pressure application to the vessel might push the excess bead (or apply some inside) back out, and might flow in a different way, and help reinforce the joint. Perhaps work back and forth between vac and pressure a couple of times to help work it in better.

[lew]

maplescrest, I will try the heavier glue this time

Len, I tried the first time with the primer by sucking it up in, hard to tell if any got in or not.

I think my problem is that it is not dry inside the joint. I applied vac for 4-5 hours nad have been letting it set for a couple of days. I will let it sit until next week sometime and try again.

[3rdgen.maple]

Hit it with a blow dryer for a bit to dry it out first. With the high humidity you could let it sit for a month and it will still be wet in the crack. Shut up Flatlander lol.

[Brent]

better allow for a lot and a lot and a lot of cleaning after putting the primer
and glue on.

Read the safety data and it will scare the hell out of you.
Nasty.

[vtmapleman]

Does anyone know the size of the o-ring that fits on the nipple on the input side of the Bernard double releaser? This o-ring is on the nipple that goes into the connector that turns when the releaser swithchs from one tank to the other. I asked my local maple supllier and all he knew was that it was the small o-ring in the repair kit which he sold me - i installed but it still leaked. I went to my local hardware store and they had a number; however trying to figure out which one I should buy was tough - a hit and miss. Any help is greatly appreciated. I am not sure but it is possible that over time the nipple might have slightly warn the connector - guess I should revist this possiblity. Thanks

[maplecrest]

for all the running around i did for o/rings. i bought a o-ring kit for 20 bucks. and that kit has worked for releasers, r/o,ect. also came in handy with tractor repair.napa sells them, as well as most auto stores.

[Haynes Forest Products]

O rings can ware the matching surfaces BUT its always a nice smooth grove that will seal with a slightly thicker O ring. O rings can be a fickeled thing to work with. Stretching the a Oring will change the diameter of the rubber causing them to leak. Trying to stuff the wrong size into the grove will work SOME times but is tricky. If there is a grove the same size diameter but slightly thicker will work. Slightly thicker and smaller in diameter will stretch to the right size..............YIKES yea trial and error is the word of the day. Plus a little lubricant can help relax it once its in place:o