Ideas for a syrup hauler

[motowbrowne]

not a sap hauler, still doing that by hand. I make/buy syrup in WI and I have a potential for a good market in Washington State where I live most of the year. I drive there twice a year and I am looking for a vehicle to haul syrup back with me. the important factors are: capacity (minivan too small, semi-truck too big, thinking i need to move less than 1000 gallons/year for now, any bigger and I will look at shipping freight.), fuel economy (it's a long haul, so I would like to get 20mpg unloaded and better than 15 loaded.), price (less than 10k if possible), and reliability (I want something reliable that I can work on if need be.) Right now I am thinking about an E350 cargo van with a powerstroke diesel. I am wary of automatic transmissions, and also of the tight working quarters, but what do you guys think. I think the diesel e350 can get 20 mpg and can haul what I need (even more with a trailer). Plus I can sleep in it during the trip, which saves me money on hotels. They can also be had with low mileage for around 6 thousand dollars. The other option I see is a 2wd dodge truck with a cummins, which isn't as sleepable, but could work. I would like 4wd, but I don't think I want to pay for it initially, or every time I go to the pump, so I think I'm looking at a 2wd vehicle. Anyone out there with an econoline van that can vouch for them? Or any other suggestions. What kind of mileage do those isuzu box trucks get? I know there are a ton of those fords on the road, so they must work alright. Any ideas would be appreciated. by the way, I just interviewed a 1967 International Travelall for the position. It had a perkins 354 diesel with a 5 speed manual. It definitely would work, and get the job done with style (and 23mpg on the highway), but it seemed like way too much work to get it road-worthy, I would want to change the front brakes to discs if I wanted to haul anything safely, but it was a cool looking truck. Thanks for your suggestions, Ryan

[markct]

1000 gallons of syrup is 11,000lbs, thats without any weight of barrels to hold it! that wont be happening in a pickup or van, maybe with a trailer, but even then thats a heavy load! might want to price trucking, its often not as expensive as you think, as long as you can load them on pallets to go on the truck

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

:D:lol:this one for sale in VT I'm sure it can do what you need it to do:lol:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e234/poultneyfiredog18/IMG00751.jpg

[tuckermtn]

try looking at uship.com put a few barrels on a pallet and then put a few pallets together and post on uship.com usually pretty cheap...

[maple flats]

I'd study hiring the shipping, but if you want to do it yourself look into renting a truck, the heaviest your driver's license is good for up to what you need to haul. Figure each gal at 11.3# plus barrel weight. Add everything you will have besides the driver, fuel etc,etc. Going overweight would cost you far more than the potential profits would easily cover. Over you license AND the MGVW would cost far more.

[motowbrowne]

thanks, especially you, Flatlander. Okay, let me make it more clear. I want to haul less than 1000 gallons per year in at least two trips. 1000 gallons is at least 11400 pounds, but that figure divided by two (two trips) is only 5500 pounds. Does that sound more reasonable. Here is my thinking: I drive to WI twice a year anyway, my car only gets about 28mpg on the highway, and I can't really carry much weight (the 1983 4wd Toyota Tercel came stock with 63 horsepower). Since I am going to pay for fuel to haul myself there and back, I'd might as well be carrying some syrup too, eh? 1000 gallons/year would be the largest I could possible see myself going in the next five years, so I am looking for a vehicle that can drive me there and back (the tercel is not fantastic on long trips anyway), be used as a passenger vehicle while I am there (so no box trucks), that I can sleep in on the way there and back, and can haul a couple of thousand pounds. I don't think that is unreasonable. I would like it if I could pull a trailer with it too, because then I think I should be able to pull/haul 5000 pounds. So, if I can get a used powerstroke van with a tow package, I should be able to: get almost 20mpg with good driving, be able to haul a lot of syrup, not have to pay for shipping, not have to pay for hotels. I should be able to get a van like this for about 5k. I haven't done the numbers too thoroughly, but it seems like driving myself in the tercel and staying in hotels, plus paying for shipping or renting a truck would start to add up in a couple of trips. The GVW of those E350s seems to be around 9k lbs. They weigh about 5-6k empty, so I could haul 300 gallons without a trailer. If I need too, a trailer could take an additional few hundred gallons (the van is rated to tow somewhere between 6 and 10k pounds depending on the year and equipment.) I would also look at a sprinter van, the dodge/mercedes/freightliner. Anyone have any experience with these, the draw is the mileage, the drawback is the price, and the small diesel. Again thanks for your ideas, and if you have any input on the original question, the one about if anyone has one of these vans or has any input about the engine/trans/reliablity/fuel economy, that would be great.

Ryan

[maple flats]

motowbrowne's idea looks good. You might also find the price of a 1 1/2 which would haul it without a trailer. U-Haul has vans for up to 18,000 lbs GVW. Look into that. An enclosed van type would be far more secure as you stop and leave the load un-protected for any reason.

[maple flats]

U-Haul has a 14' truck, listed to carry 6,190# and it gets 10 MPG claimed. Their 17' has more room but under 6,000# payload. Anything smaller needs vehicle plus trailer to carry what you want.
There are also others who rent trucks, some might cost less. Check around.
Good luck.
Dave

[Thad Blaisdell]

The GVW of those E350s seems to be around 9k lbs. They weigh about 5-6k empty, so I could haul 300 gallons without a trailer. If I need too, a trailer could take an additional few hundred gallons (the van is rated to tow somewhere between 6 and 10k pounds depending on the year and equipment.)

Ryan

300 gallons= 10--30 gallon barrels or 8-- 40's Good luck getting that many in a van. You are absolutely going to need a trailer to get the job done. With that distance carrying that much weight you better be prepared for a breakdown. AAA all the way.

[maple flats]

Whatever you decide to use, don't crowd the MGVW unless you are very experienced driving heavier vehicles. Even though a vehicle is capable of hauling a certain payload, as you get closer to that limit, the operator must be more experienced to properly handle the actual driving of the vehicle.
I have driven vehicles, with and without trailers from a family car with and without trailer up to truck trailer combination with a 28,000# GVW truck pulling an 18,000# GVW trailer (with MGVW close at hand on the trailer, to haul the back hoe we had to clean mud off the tires, frame and trailer deck or we would be overloaded, which in NYS used to cost more than we were willing to pay). Believe me, the closer you come to the vehicle MGVW the better driver you must be. The heavier you are the harder any change in direction or speed is and the slower any movement of the steering wheel must be. This applies to any size vehicle approaching MGVW, not just big, tall trucks. A vehicle hauling 50-60% of MGVW handles much better for non professional drivers.

[Amber Gold]

I'd get a 1/2 ton pickup and buy/rent a dual axle trailer w/ brakes...I think you can find a landscaping trailer good for ~7k lbs I think which should be enough for the trailer weight and syrup load. For the two times a year you're hauling it, you'll enjoy the ride comfort and cheaper cost of a 1/2 ton over a diesel work truck. You could also get an enclosed trailer for security purposes.

Is it really worth your time and expense for the transportation system (truck, trailer, etc.) to haul the syrup over vs. shipping it? I'd think you could ship a lot of syrup before you paid for all that.

[farmer12071]

a gutted out diesel school bus,i have a small 30 pass as a service truck,air compressor,welder,generator,and tools probly close to 8000lbs of equiptment and i get close to 15mpg.with it.and most are well maintained.

[maple flats]

Diesel, yes, but gas, no. I had an old school bus, gas, that we used as a rolling workshop. We covered an area that included about 1/3 of NYS. On a fresh tune-up we got 4.5 mpg. We sold it even though it was real handy when we got to the jobsite. On the other hand, the 28,000# MGVW truck I mentioned above was a 1979 International with a 9 liter diesel. We got 14.5 MPG on it no matter what type of driving we were doing, from local, to hauling an 18,000# gooseneck trailer to North Carolina to pick up a full load of furnaces. Even fully loaded we still got 14.5 mpg.
As for a 7,000# trailer hauling the load. No go. Unless it is aluminum frame, that might make it. I have had 3 trailers @ 7,000# rating. They ranged from 2970# to 3450# unloaded. I never had an aluminum frame one. You'd have to check that weight. Just remember what I said above about the cost for an overloaded vehicle. It is different all over, but I had a friend who got caught overloaded whith his single ax dump truck. His fine was $100+ $1 per pound. He was 2 ton over. He never hauled an over weight load again.

[motowbrowne]

I wanted to let you all know what I settled with. I got a 1990 ford 3/4 ton 2wd truck with a 300 ci straight six and the heavy duty 5-speed manual. It's not quite what I had in mind earlier, but a few things changed my mind. One, this thing will be a lot better for hauling firewood than a van, two, diesel is way more expensive than gas, so gas trucks started to look a lot more appealing, not to mention that this truck was way cheaper than a diesel. Also, my coonhound looks a lot better in an old truck than a van. The truck has a gvwr of 8600, and doesn't weigh too much on account of being a single cab and only 2wd, so it should be able to haul a good amt. of syrup. Obviously to achieve the amts. I was talking about earlier, I'd have to pull a trailer, but for the next year or two it should be perfect without one. The guy who had it before me said it gets about 19mpg on the hwy, which is about what other people with similar trucks say on the ford forums, which isn't so bad. Obviously that will probably go down with a heavy load, but still, not so bad. I have been using it quite a bit around here since I got it, and I'm quite happy with it so far. We got a record snowfall of 17 inches out here (WA state where I live most of the year) and with 400 lbs. of wood and snow in the bed I had no traction problems once I dug it out. I also loaded it high with wet maple and it doesn't feel too floaty, even though it could probably do well with a new set of shocks. Well, I'm looking forward to driving it back to syrup country in the coming weeks.

Wishing everyone a good season,
Ryan

[dgp219]

Hey Ryan, In reading this thread I didn't notice anything about bottling when you get to Washington. Are you going to need to move cases of bottles also? For 300 gal. that's 1200 quarts at 75/case (plastic) is 16 cases. Just something else to consider.

[sugaringcrazy]

Yo Ryan! I think you should get in that new truck and drive out here to VT and pay a visit!! Yup it's Schuyler writing. Hope you are getting as excited as I am about sugaring this year. I am just finishing a new sugar house, which is awesome, and I am going up to 150 taps. I like your idea of bringing syrup to WA. I think you said you were going to sell it to the Oly coop. Is that true? Anyways, talk to ya later buddy!