October Journal

[syrupmaker]

OK its's already the 2nd and Jim (mapleman3) hasn't started it,so i will.
BBBRRRRRRRRRRR..... 8O ....anybody ready for winter yet? We had a chilly 35 degrees but i'm sure it's colderrrrrrrrrr further north.Has anyone seen frost yet? Supposed to here tonight. I see Jerry(Forester1) is hogging all the snowpack early in the season.rumor was they received 51/2" already.
Wait till after holloween then let it pile up.Although i do like snow on the ground for hunting.

[syrupmaker]

WOW ...that was close! I just watched the news and they were in the big town of Colden were it SNOWED ! Thats just two hills over from my house.

How much did you get Joe(mapleking) :?:

[mapleman9000]

it snowed here in the finger lakes region. there was no acumulation, but it did snow steady for a few minutes. i had to scape the ice off the winshield this morning!

[themapleking]

Only got 1"-2" the town had fun plowing. On to more important news I watched the candian news tonight and they had a special about the asian longhorn beetle. It's killing the hard wood trees up there " yes the maples" there's no way to kill the beetle. They have to cut done the infected trees and grind them up.They bore holes in the trees and they bleed to death. That's not that far from here. Realy makes you think.

[forester1]

Had an inch a couple days ago and last night it snowed about 6 inches here. It pulled a bunch of branches and trees down since the leaves are still on and it was a wet snow that froze on the trees. Power was out all night and the phone down for a while too. :cry: School was cancelled. Not ready for all this yet. Most of it melted now but supposed to get more this weekend. At least I finished my woodshed extension on the sugarhouse.

[Al]

Wow 8O no snow here in Vermont supposed to frost tonight thou. Getting the metal on the roof and lean to this weekend. The outside will still needs a little work but nothing serious. Lost a nice two tap maple in the wind storm :cry: . Wouldn't you know it's all the way back to the fence line so I have to hand carry the wood about 600 ft until I can throw it over the ridge. Well need the exercise I guess. Got in contact today with the UVM program. What a wealth of information. Got to get the firebrick and motar next week. 40 1" bricks and 50lbs of motar. Can't figure out if I want to do it in the heated garage then carry it out or do it in the sugar shack. It would proberly cure better in the garage. Any suggestions? It's about 80 feet to my garage to the sugar shack.

[mapleman3]

Just got in from Syracuse... too much work there to ever get a chance to get to a supply house :? I got snowed on for a half hour this afternoon 8O
Thanks Rick for getting the journal going... guess I'm slacking :wink:
Bought semi rigid tubing and fittings the other day... I'll be starting that this weekend... if it stay's dry!!
Jim

Al, Remember how heavy MY arch was????? 8O 8O

[michaelh05478]

Al, Id brick it in the garage and pull it up on a trailer after unless you wait for a warmer day if we get any......or put a little heat in the sugar house and brick it there.....................

[mapleman3]

Well I started running my mainline this morning, I should be running laterals by this afternoon if the rain holds out. I bought a couple different end of line fittings, the Y and the loop end, BUT I didn't realize I bought a loop end with 2 barbs not 1. not sure how to use it, may just go with the y's.
Jim

[Brian]

The barbs are to hook the line around the tree. The opening is where you hook your lateral line to, then go down about 3 inches and cut the line then hook on a drop line. The drop lines should be about 30 inches long so you can have room to move the spout to different places on the tree. I make my drop lines ahead of time to make it easer. I tie the tubing to the end tree and run it to the main line and let the roll sit there. Then I go back and untie the tubing and if there is a kink in the line cut it out then put in the y or tee to go around the tree and then install my drop line. Then I go to the next tree placing drop lines in the lateral line. keep the lateral line tight down through then cut it and hook it on to the main line. most of my lines have been up for about 4 years and only had one get chewed. I leave them up year round. On a big tree I would use the tee so you can hook the drop lines into the loop around th tree so they can reach. hope this helps


Brian

[powerdub]

Jim, you put the end of the tube through the loop, go around the tree and press the end onto one of the barbs. Then you press your drop on the other barb. That is all there is to it. If I can get my hands on my brother inlaws digital camera I will get a picture for you. I also have another way to show you but I need the camera to help explain.

Scott... thats what I thought, these you just have to put a cap on the spout insted of using a drop tee that has a spouut cap built in right?
Jim right.

[powerdub]

That is right. These were designed so the sap would flow out of the tree, through the ring connector, around the tree and down the hill. Real easy clean design if you ask me, the only problem I have had with them is that you can't tighten your line from the top without cutting it. I am still a big fan of the hollow core nylon rope. It doesnt matter then if you are at the ends of the lines or at the main line you can pull them tight if they need. Snow has stretched more of my rigid tubing than anything and after the last couple of years I have had to more tightening than ever and I am always on the wrong end. :?

[Brian]

I once ran a bunch of main line and wire. Things were going good until I ran out of 3/4 inch pipe clamps for the connections, so I decided to keep going and come back later. I got all of the main line up, everything looked good so I went home. The next weekend I went back to put on the clamps. 8O What a surprise at least 1/2 of the connections were pulled apart. I wished I had let the tension off the main line or gone and got some clamps right then. :oops: I got a little extra education. The School of Hard Knocks.


Brian

[mapleman3]

Oh Cr&% Brian I just did the same thing today!! I ran out of clamps on the branch fittings, figured I'd get more, guess I better do that tomorrow 8O
Thanks for the heads up.

Scott I see your point on the end of line rings, if I put a drop tee in it can have a little stagnent sap there.

Hey I got 2 videos today from the Vermont extension. I get to borrow them and just pay the shipping, 1 is on tubbing the other is a general promotion tape... I also got a few articles on sap preheaters from them.

Jim

[powerdub]

I went to canada a week ago and visited some sugar houses and the Lapierre factory. The first place we went to had over 140,000 taps. Not all of it ran into the sugar house but it was all on pipe and vacuum. The sugar house itself was HUGE. It had 5 evaporators sitting side by side with 5 RO machines. They lived there for 8 weeks during the season. It had a kitchen, living quarters and thier own cook. The next place had 40,000 taps, this was a husband and wife team. They too lived there during the season. All of the sap came into the sugar house via underground lines. The releaser was in the basement and the sap was pumped up and outside into the storage tanks. They only had 1 evap and 1 RO. You could eat off the floor in that place. I saw more than I can type about here. They have a lot going on up there as far as developement goes. I saw some really good ideas I think I am going to try. Spout sterilization is a big thing. They figure if the spout going into the tree is sterile to begin with, bacteria is not going to start growing right off and affect the hole. It seems every one up there is using a spout adapter that can be removed and cleaned in the sugar house, then when you go to retap in the spring you clean the end with alcohol right before you put it in the tree. If you all get a chance to up there and take some tour I would recommend it highly. It's a real eye opener. More later if anyone is interested.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I was able to finish up the last of my tubing yesterday and everything looks good. I have around 300 taps total, with about 40 of those being on buckets. About 1/2 of my taps with tubing will have the tubing laying on the ground. Most of the areas are really steep, so I wont have any problem with flow or sags in the line as the sun seldom ever hits any of the areas that I have the tubing on the ground. The advantage to me in this is that I can roll it up after season is over and store it away because there are cattle in these areas part of the year even though they seldom ever ventures into these areas since it is fully wooded and I am not big on stretching tubing. I have used this method in the past with good sucess, so we see how it goes.

The only other thing I have to do is build a stand for my feeding tank and hookup the the 1.5" feed line. I got a 1.5" plastic foodgrade ball valve to hookup to the tank and I also got a 1.5" quick coupler for the center of the line. This will allow me to drain the line fully every day to make sure nothing freezes. Season starts here around the first of Feb, so I am less than four months away. Squirrel season starts next Sat and bow season the following Sat, so its time for hunting first for the next three months.

I am planning on doing a test boil sometime this winter to check everything out, so that will be kinda exciting. :D :D

Good luck to all as it will be here soon! :D :D

Brandon

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Jeremy,

The two locations I have tubing on the ground is fairly steep and even, so I don't get any low pockets. After sugarin season starts, we don't see much snow here and the ground is seldom frozen except for maybe a few hours at night. If for some reason we would get a large snow, I could run the 125 +/- taps I have and pull the lines up on top of the snow in less than an hour. It does make it easier to roll up and unroll the tubing. I seldom ever have more than five or six inches of snow when I tap if any at all, so if I ran mine as high in the air as they do up north, I would have to tap all my trees off of a stepladder. I have over 100 taps that are on lateral lines in the air and I have attatched all of them to wire. I don't like to stretch the tubing, personal preference I guess.

I have several 5/16" lateral lines that have between 25 and 30 taps on them. The reasoning behind this is that the large volume of sap running through the lines helps to keep the lines flushed and helps keep bacteria from building up especially on lines that are laying on the ground. I know this is above the recommended number of taps for lateral lines, but I have done it in the past with good success. If you put a comparable amount of water pressure on a 5/16" line, you would be suprised how much water would pass through it in an hour!

Brandon

Brandon

[mapleman3]

Jeremy, do you just dip the spout end in rubbing alchohol before putting in the tree?? or do you dry it first?
Well I am almost done marking out trees at my sister in laws, I hadn't realized how far back and"up hill :lol: :lol: " they go it will be an excellent Bush, got me pretty excited!! I figure I will get close to 200 taps there all on good slope, and about 100 behind my house maybe on vacume due to non existant slope.. and close to 100 on buckets(roadside) all said and done hopefully 400, a bit more than I thought I would do, but that will be my limit this year. and hopefully it will be more than I can handle :lol:

I started my branch lines yesterday and forgot to buy the hook connections for at the branch fittings, guess another online order is due!!! never thought a roll of 500 feet of semi rigid would go so fast 8O guess a bunch more of that to order too 8O

isn't this a blast!!!!!!

Jim

Jim
You are a sick little man,sounds like your going for the gusto over there.

[mapleman3]

never know what ya can handle unless you go for it right?? I know from past years I can handle the long days of boiling.. I remember boiling 14 hours one day and making 3/4 of a gallon on a wood stove, so making a gallon an hour (hopefully) will be fantastic.....
on another note, I saw a setup that had air injection to the arch, putting more oxygenright at the point where the flames shoot up into theraised flues...thinking of doing that, the guy said it raised his amount of boiling a bunch... that with the draft blower. anybody doing that?????

Jim

[themapleking]

Jim; I got 30 rolls of 5/16 line in my woods already 3 miles. And 1.5 miles of main line. 400 taps ha. ha. staying small ya right. When do want to buy my 3x8, so I can order my 4x10 The maple bug. :lol: :lol: :roll: :roll:

[mapleman3]

I know Joe, it's sick... but honest, no more than 400.I do have to set a limit I guess, and 400 if the quart per tap works out ... 100 gals is my dream!! and maybe just a dream but I have been told by other 2x6 owners saying they have done it!! thats my goal, and if all goes well and the taps keep coming my way, who knows in the future??? we all want to go bigger 8) :wink:

Jim

Ps still love the Colden Grand Canyon :lol: :lol: :lol:

"Colden Grand Canyon Syrup"

[mapleman3]

Jeremy, Iwill be doing a blower, through the back of the arch firebox though, but this guy had 2 flex metal hoses that came up from the duct from the blowerthat went into the back of the arch, those 2 hoses decreased in size to a 1inch pipe that went throughthe arch(across at the point the slanted part of the arch meets the flat flue part) the pipe had holes in it to force air in where the fire goes up into the flues... the flex hoses fed both sides of the pipe... it's actually a worthy idea, I'm sure others have done... I wish I could have taken a pic of it to show you pretty cool 8)
Jim

[michaelh05478]

Well, Got the deer hunting done, bagged a 5 pt 118lb buck sunday afternoon.....now i have time to finish the sugar house and get ready for the rig to arrive......should be all done by this thursday......good luck to all you hunters....................Mike

[Al]

Congrats Mike. Got one early!!
I can see it now Jim will tap every tree around for a 100 miles and will have found a way to run his arch by nuclear power. Not only will he make syrup but electricity also. :D Keep going Jim that way my wife won't think I'm crazy also. I just tell her stories about you guys down south. She just shakes her head and walks off. :D
The roof is on the sugar house only the bat to put on and the lean too. Now I just have get the firebrick and motar. Then build a tank stand and some shelves.
Dang and here comes deer hunting!!!!
Take care

Thank God I don't hunt, I don't have enough time now as it is!! how do you guys do it?
Al I like your idea... maybe I could sell steam to Boston or something for their heat... heck my town Belchertown sells it's resevoir water to Boston
Maybe I can have them tap trees for me along the way, and I'll trade them sap for steam.

Sounds like your shack is doing great!! Keep up the good work, I'll be up to see it the beginning of Nov. I'll let ya know when.

[mapleman3]

Yep Me again... Jim

[mapleman3]

Darn .... Busted :wink:

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Jeremy,

Thanks for the information on the rigid tubing. I wished I had known that in the past. I have always used the regular purple/blue Lamb tubing and it has worked good.

As far as putting it on wire, I just install that lateral lines just line mainlines and have 2 or 3 running into a 100 or 150 gallon tank. It works good for me in the areas I have to tap!

Brandon

[powerdub]

Due to new land owner and his putting in some roads for developement in the future my next few weekends will be tied up moving 980 feet of 2 inch main line. Then I have to figure out how I am going to tie the rest of the bush back into it and still be able to tap certain sections that run fairly well. I figure I have lost about 200 taps out of it but can pick up about 300 new ones when I am done. Hopefully it won't get too cold too quick as I want to build a mezzanine in the sugarhouse. I am getting soft in my old age and working in a controlled environment doesn't help either. A set of new membranes and the old wallet will be empty again. That's the plans, we will see how it works out.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Scott,

Pretty impressive setup and nice pics. I am sure it would be awesome having a RO. By the way, if you are interested in selling the RO, Jim(mapleman3) I am sure would be interested in buying it as he is gobbling up all the taps in Belchertown, MA and for his wife's sake! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Brandon

[mapleman3]

Naw.. nothing wrong with a 24hr boil :wink: and remember, I'm keeping it under 20,000 taps this year!!! :lol: :wink:
Jim

[Al]

Boy Jim your expanding fast. First maple syrup, then steam to Boston and when you get your RO, Desjardins sweet water. 8O The next biggest thing to Gatoraide. :D Boy when you build an empire you move fast.
Cut down a couple of more trees last night. The roofs on and I'll start puting the bat on the boards tomorrow. Going to store my wood in my new garage to help it dry out. The garage stays heated all winter can't hurt. Still have to get the bricks etc for the evaporator. Waiting for a better back day to do that job.
Take care

[mapleman3]

Al... too funny :lol: 8)
Picked up one of those caged poly tanks today 275 gals, 8" manhole on top with 2 " valve on the bottom,seems pretty clean no smell but the plastic smell..brought it to the car wash and pressure washed it, I'll put a gallon of bleech and fill it with water to sanitize it. it will be great for keeping in the truck or teiler at gathering time. it might be a little tall for in the truck though. have to think of my kids helping. what do you all use for gathering ? this should be big enough for the roadside trees and the pipeline tank at my sis in laws.
Jim

[Al]

Hi Jim, just got 2 of those tanks. Took them to the car wash and cleaned them out. Boy you really have to roll them around to get all the water out. !!!! Going to use one to gather in and put one in the sugar house as a holding tank. Have to convert the valve on one so I can downsize to my sap regulator. I'd like a new trailer but not this year. I'm trying to strengthen up a wooden trailer I made a couple of years ago. Going to test it this weekend. Wish me luck!!!!!!! :D

[Al]

Must be trying to reach a 100 posts or something. Walked up to the garage thinking about getting water out of the bottom of the tank. Looked in the back of my garage and there set my wet/dry vacum. Drop that hose line right in and out comes the water. :D Boy those milky way candy bars are dangerous when it comes to brain storming!!!! :wink:

[mapleman3]

Al.. the tank I got actually has an slightly angled bootom so all the water...umm SAP will go right to the valve, with hardley anything left in it....it's filling with water and bleech as we speak, went home a little early today, got a soccer game at 5:15pm :?
Jim

[mapleman9000]

mapleman3

we have bought and used a 210 gallon pick-up tank. we used it for storage while we needed it. we also used it for a collection tank with about 100 taps on tubbing. i would advise against using one though because they are very difficult to clean. the first year was good, but after that it got discolored and smells a little funny. the problem is you can't reach across to the other side to clean it and water will "stand" on the second teir of the tank if you do not dry it very well.

i use a 4-wheeler to collect sap. it is a 400 cc Suzuki Eiger and works very well as long as you don't have any really steap trails you have to go up.

Gerry

[mapleman3]

I had thought of a pickup tank... but saw this one,it should work ok, it's easy to rinse out.was nice n cheap :lol:
Jim

[michaelh05478]

Al, Where did you get your tanks?? Care to say how much!! I may pick up a few for tanks in the woods for my pipe line.....I have 85% of the additions almost done.....now they say the 27th of oct my rig will be ready....Sorry i havent had time to stop in, been right out straight working on the SH with the nice weather we have....Jim, put your tank on your trailer........in will give you a platform to stand on....sounds like your pretty close to being done......The desk you made came out great......Is it made of MAPLE......LOL

[Al]

Hi Mike glad to hear your sugar house is coming along and not long until your rig gets in. Give me a call if you need a hand. I didn't pay a thing for the tanks. My father-in-law had them and give them to me. Boy he's quailified for free syrup for a life time with all the help he's given me.
He's coming back in Nov. to do the lean too. I told him I could do it but he wants to make sure it's done perfect. He brought over telephone poles to use for support 8O :D . Shouldn't fall down!!!!!
Going to pick up the brick next week.
Staying busy in Pumpkin Village. :D

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Al,

It sounds like you're doing a swell job with everything and I can't wait to see the pics. A little extra effort now will sure go a long ways extra in the future!

Brandon

[themapleking]

Leveled out the ruts on the woods road. Cleaned up my mess in the woods from hanging lines. Counted my taps also came up with 730. I figured with the vacuume it should = about 1100 taps. Thats more than enough for me. Converted the old hay wagon into a sap wagon with a 500 gal tank.

[Al]

Well cut down a couple of more trees today put them in the splitting pile. After I split them I'll put them in the garage. Making a stack cover out of metal roofing. Going to fold them over in a mailbox shape and attach them together with some threaded rod. We'll see how it go's. Just couldn't see $75.00 for a cover with out trying this first.
Building my tank stand. Tacked it together then decided to make it smaller. Then put it in the shed to see what it looks like.Looks big. 8O May rethink the idea of putting a 275 gallon tank in my sugarhouse!
Looking at float prices and waiting on a price from my dealer.
Boy any more purchases and I may have to get another job!!!! :D
Take care

Hi Al,
Just a thought. I would not suggest a 275 gallon tank inside the warm sugarhouse. The sap will warm while boiling and all 275 gallons will need to be finished each time you run your rig. I would use something in the 65 to 125 gallon size and keep the rest of the sap outside in the cold. Pump or feed by gravity from the outside , in . This will also save space inside the shack. Best of luck----- Race.

[Al]

Never thought about that Race. Hum! Maybe time for plan B. Get a tank that fits the tractor bucket. Hook a hose, lift, regulate right into the evaporator!!!!!!!! :D Nah that's to easy!
Have a nice day!!!!!!!
Plan C, Build a box around the inside tank to help keep out the heat!!!
Boy am I confused now!!!! 8O :D

[mapleman3]

Al, what did you end up doing for a floor in your shack?
Jim

[Al]

Hi Jim, used 3/4" white stone for the floor. Working out great. Although I think I'm going to put in some sauna tubs filled with cement for the evaporator.

[mapleman3]

good Idea.. I was thinking the same thing, we need to keep it level, and stay level. I have concrete, but it heaves when frozen, so sona tubes would work out good as long as they are big and deep enough

Jim

[jmattice]

Sugarhouse addition is complete. Just finishing up some cupboard doors that I built. `I'm picking up a 350 gallon stainless bulk tank this week for sap storage. New evaporator is scheduled to arrive on the 25th.
John

[mapleman3]

looks like it will turn out to be not too bad of a weekend. I'll get some more lines run, the wind here last night was unbelievable, have to check mainlines later to see if anything came down on them.

Jim

[Al]

Have to agree on the wind. Just about blew everything off the top of the hill. Hope to get out today and see if I lost any trees. Still trying to figure out if I want to get the float for the crimp pan ($275.00) or try it like it is. Going to finish up my tank stand this weedend. I hope!
Have a great day!

[mapleman3]

Al,what are you making you stand out of? I filled my poly tank the other day, tried to move it to see how heavy ... couldn't budge it, 275 gal x 8lbs/gallon water...about 2200 lbs, so if it's a high stand be sure to build it real strong!! and don't forget if it's outside, with that weight the ground will settle you'll need solid ground or foundation if it's on a stand.

Jim

[Al]

Boy you got that right!!!!!!!!! Strenghten up my trailor for a test run this weekend. Hope it hold at least half a tank. :D
Building the stand out of 4x4"s,2x6's and2X8 lumber. Using 3inch thick cherry boards at the base to spread out the weight. Get them free from a local company if your there at the right time. Talk about heavy!!
I'm proberly going to run 60 buckets this year so the tanks won't always be full but building them so if they have to they'll hold. Could you imagine the size tank stands some of this guys have. Holy Cow you need to be a engineer just to design one that will hold up that weight!!!
Take care

[backyardsugarer]

I have everything cleaned, covered and ready to go. Now we just need winter. The sugar shack is cleaned out. I just covered the wood piles and suspended my steam hood from the ceiling (made a nice little pulley sytem for it) . I still have to fire brick the evaporator and then I am ready to go.

Chris

[forester1]

I just bought a bulk tank tonight for $300. :D A 300 gallon zero. He may sell me another tank too. He's lending me his trailer and loading it with his tractor. What a nice guy. He makes syrup so no surprise. They were surplus to his needs.

[mapleman3]

Well another sunday morning working in the Bush " IN THE RAIN" got about a 500 ft path cut for the mainline. worried about shade from some pines though. darn ticks are still out too, had a little bugger crawling up my arm!!
at least this bush has a good grade compared to the one I have behind the house. so things will be a little easier .

[Mike]

Looks like my new rig will be ready this friday!!!!!! Al if ya still wanna help it should be there around noon or so..I hope...... :lol:

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Mike,

It's about time you joined the trader! Welcome!!! Now we can private message you to chat.

Don't kill to many big bucks. I haven't gotten anything yet because I have been mainly squirrel hunting.

[Al]

Sorry Mike couldn't come up with a baby sitter. My wife works Sat morning but if you need help after that I can make it. Got all my wood split and in the garage. Now for electric.
Take care

[Mike]

Al, Thanks for the offer, I should be all set for help friday...I should be there sat if you want to check it out......Brandon, thanks for the welcome, but if you look at the date i joined it was in May of last year....Took me some time to remember my pass word....lol....I have to many accounts on here.....Good luck to you also this deer season, and to the rest of you hunters...... :D .....Mike

[Mike]

Al, Thanks for the offer, I should be all set for help friday...I should be there sat if you want to check it out......Brandon, thanks for the welcome, but if you look at the date i joined it was in May of last year....Took me some time to remember my pass word....lol....I have to many accounts on here.....Good luck to you also this deer season, and to the rest of you hunters...... :D .....Mike

[syrupmaker]

mapleman3...did you tell Mike your secret to getting the most posts? I see he's gonna try doubleing his posts and catch up to you. :wink:

[mapleman3]

you can't catch the mapleman.. the mapleman... the mapleman :lol: :wink:

glad to see he remembered his password, I think his mind has been a fog lately thinking of the big shiny new oil 3x10 he's getting tomorrow :wink: