microspouts

[forester1]

Anyone use those new microspouts or know someone who tried them? 3/16" and made of stainless, designed to sterilize after the season. Supposedly the season lasted longer with them.

[syrupmaker]

Jerry.....Jim (mapleman3) and I were just talking about those the other day. There was an article in Farming Magazine that mentioned these and also said about the extended season.I have yet to see anyone offer these for sale,but the author of the article was making his own. I would definately be interested in trying a batch to compare with the7/16" and tree savers to do some experimenting of my own over the next few years. If you do not receive that magazine and would like to read that article (or anyone else) send me a fax number or drop me a note and i'll get a copy of it to you. :wink: We also wondered if the number of taps per tree could increase due to the smaller diameter of these micro taps :?:


Rick

[forester1]

I just read about these in the Maple News. Apparently there is a limited amount for sale for 2004. They are called SST microspouts and are sold by Micro Maple Supply 802-899-4934. micromaple@wmconnect.com. The Maple News is a 16 page newspaper published 7 times a year. subscriptions $18. Maple News 138 Main St. Greenwich NY, 12834. I hadn't heard of either of these until the Michigan fall tour this past weekend.

[Breezy Lane Sugarworks]

I saw those at the Vermont building at the Big E. Larry Myotte(sorry if the spelling is wrong), showed them to me and they seem to be really slick. He told me that they need to be used with a vacuum system because of their size and design. By them being stainless I definitily think that it will reduce the organisms that enter at the spout.

[powerdub]

I may sound a bit skeptical here but I don't see the advantage of them. All the reports I have read about so far indicate that they are about equal with health spouts. I think Their biggest advantage is that they are made of stainless steel. If you don't have vacuum they are not going to work at all. I also feel for the smaller producer who does not have to go out in January to start tapping, lenghthening the season won't do any good. I start tapping with the weather because I can get tapped out in two days. When the forecast shows good sugaring temps for a ways I go tapping. When the sap stops running it is because the season is over and not because the holes dried up. Who knows these could be the best thing since sliced bread, maybe then I will change my mind.

[Brian]

Glen Goodrich, my neighbor, is involved in the design of those spouts. I have one of those spouts. We talked of making some buckets that we could put vac on to compare sap flow to 5/16 treesaver spouts to see the difference.

Brian

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Well, for what it's worth, here's my opinion. I know some large producers that have trees on there farms that have been tapped for over over 200 years and some of the trees are well over 36" in diameter. They have put as many as 8 taps on the trees for years and they are still healthy and producing a lot of sap. NO, I don't recommend over 4 taps on any tree, but that is there business.

I am all for technology, but sometimes I think people put too much time into certain projects. The 7/16" spouts have worked good for years and I am sure 100 years ago, these large trees I referred to above probably had wooden spouts in them a lot larger than 7/16". The biggest problem to maple trees is cattle, insects and disease. Personally, I have never known a tree to die from tapping it. :? :? :? :?

Brandon

[Brian]

I think the smaller the spout the easer on the tree. the less healing the tree has to do, less chance for bacteria to grow in the old tap hole. If I can yeild close to the same amount of sap, I would switch. I think up here porcupines are harder on maples than cattle. my gradfather ran cattle in his sugar woods and my father and uncle think the sap was sweeter then than it is now. The cattle fertlized the soil and turnd it over and kept the slash from growing up and tread in the old leaves so they can break down faster. They taped 2500 with bucketts.

just a thought.

Brian

[syrupmaker]

Dear lord 2500 on buckets?Now thats what i call work.Ican't imagine the amount of time it took to dump that many buckets,and have time to boil besides. :?

[Brian]

My dad said they only gathered 1/2 of the buckets a day of the 2500 taps and if the bucketts ran over so be it . They farmed, so after chores in the morning my dad and his brother would gather while mygrandfather would boil. Dad said there was usually a couple guys helping. They used horses and an old crawler to gather. I guess at chore time at night my dad and my uncle would do them. They sold syrup to restaurants in Randolph VT. They sold bulk to Eatons Sugar House. They boiled on a 4x12 arch. I don't know how much they made on the avrage year. I asked my dad and his answer was all depended on the year sometimes good and sometimes piss poor, whatever that means.

Brian

[syrupmaker]

So has anybody ordered up any of the new spouts :?: I'm not looking to crucify you if ya did, Just wondered what you thought of there desighn and what it actually looks like.I'm still considering ordering some just to do some experimenting with them myself.I have heard two different stories on them so far.One is no vaccum the other is only with vaccum. Let me know.

Rick
Homemade arch
Stainless flat pans
Stihl chain saw
Rigged De Laval vac pump
and releaser
Air injection in the works
and alot of other dumd ideas
(some that have actually worked)

[Mike]

Just got done reading my last issue of Farming and theres a ad in there for the original Health Spout in stainless!!!!!!!!! Don't know any other details..................Might be worth checking into.......

[syrupmaker]

Mike....I saw that also. But that was the health spout wasn't? The micro spout is supposed to be smaller yet.


Rick
Homemade arch
Stainless flat pans
Stihl chain saw
rigged De Laval vac pump
and releaser
Air injection in the works
and a bunch of other dumb ideas
(some that actually worked)

[mapleman3]

yes extreamly small!! come on Rick buy some and let us know how they do. you can be the official mapletrader microspout tester!! :lol:

the thing about them is when you drill the hole, you need someone to put the tap in, otherwise you forget wher you drilled the hole... thats how small they are... if ya drop one in the leaves... forget about it 8O

[themapleking]

From what I read They are 3/16 size thats one small hole. And they say to use vacuume, and you have to redo your lines to differant specs. including all of the drop lines. I'll wait till the real world tests come in.

[Mike]

Rick, I know there the bigger ones but i was wondering if they would help prevent bacteria like the micro ones and give you a little longer season...Just a thought.....

Mike... Good point there, they are stainless. I'll check into those as well. I spoke to Rob tonight and he is sending me a sample in the mail.price is .90 each wich i thought was cheap for something that has to be machined but i suppose with CNC or what ever computor run machine it a set and get operation. Waiting for the mail man now. :roll:

Mike... Good point there, they are stainless. I'll check into those as well. I spoke to Rob tonight and he is sending me a sample in the mail. Price is .90 each which i thought was cheap for something that has to be machined but i suppose with CNC or what ever computor run machine it a set and get operation. Waiting for the mail man now. :roll:

Rick

[syrupmaker]

OOPS forgot to log in last night.I just hope the mail man isn't as slow with this sample spout as the UPS man has been with MY CHICKENS. :P

Rick

[Al]

Hi Rick,none syrup question here. Are you close to Seneca Falls? I get there about once a year for the Empire Farm days.

[syrupmaker]

Al....I can be to Seneca Falls in two hours from Eden so it's not to far.If you go to Empire Farm Days have you ever been to the NYSMP winter conference at the Verona-Sherrill high school? It's located between Syracuse and Utica just off exit 33 of the thru-way on rt31 in the town of Verona. I went two years ago and am thinking of going this year to see whats new and exciting out there. It's schedualed for January 9th and 10th(Sat. and Sun.) In perticular i'm gonna go for the seminar on vaccum.

Do's and dont's,ladders,boosters,sap flow and CFM. They get into all kinds of techno stuff and gadgets. Probably like the seminar at Goodrich's place only closer to me :)

Maybe we can catch up with each other at the next farm days in 2004

Rick

[mapleman3]

Darn UPS guy must have lost the order... jeeze :?

[syrupmaker]

Ya just can't find good UPS help these days. Maybe we should be usinf USPS instead. :wink:
Rick

[Al]

Hey Rick sounds good to me. When I go to N.Y. I stay at my brotherin-laws place in Watertown. Just hop on the thruway and there you are. We'll have to stay in touch sometimes I go over by myself just to get a break. Take care.

[sugaring42long]

This is a very timely thread, does anyone know how to get a sample of the new stainless health spouts? I called every IPL dealer I know and could not find anybody willing to sell me a sample.

If anyone has any info on when these will be available please post or email me at cwelch1@frontiernet.net thanks --- Chuck W.

[mapleman3]

Chuck I sent you an email on that :)
Hope it helps

Maybe we can get the Maple Guys to get those or the Micro spouts??????

Chris??? anything??

[Brian]

Glen Goodrich is a dealer for micro-spouts in this area. (802) 426-3388 the price is going to be about 1.25 apiece he thought. he said he had to make a call to know for sure.He is going to put on some this year.

BRIAN

[mapleman3]

I was thinking(I know... bad idea), what if you took a few micropouts and tapped a tree or a few trees early to use them as test trees spouts, it wouldn't do much damage since they are so small, the tube it to a bucket, then you could test the sugar content for haha's it shouldn't close up before normal tapping time due to them being extreamly clean. any thoughts?this way you could see when they start running good and tap accordingly

[syrupmaker]

Theory sounds good but the boys who desighned then say that they are only for vaccum, not usable with plain tubing to buckets,pails ETC. WHY dunno :?: :?: :?:

I figure i'd try them both ways,get my own theory on it and go from there.

Rick

[mapleman3]

Jeremy, My thoughts exactly!! right down to a bucket should create vacuum, although it may need to be able to hold some sap to get the vac going. but at least we'll see if the trees are running and the micro's should stay open.

[Michaelh05478]

Jim, I put out 450 5 gal buckets on the ground with hoses last year and had a hell of a year!!! I had a great run on the last run!!!! picked up 6 loads of 300 gals a load!!!!Best run we had all last season!!!!!!

[nysugarmaker]

Well guys, right or wrong, I bought 300 of them. We have a small bush that I will put to all micros. What better way to find out. Dont know if I will get them all in this year, the snow is pretty deep here, need to concentrate on the main bush first. I hope to keep records as accurate as possible so we can decide if they are worth it or not. If they work, I will tell every one that wants to know. If they dont, I probably wont keep quiet though, have never been known to be quiet anyway.

[mapleman3]

will they be on Vacuum or gravity?

[nysugarmaker]

whole system will be on vaccum!

[imclean]

I would like to buy some of these Microspouts. Can you give me the Number to get them or more info on them

[forester1]

SST microspouts at Micro Maple Supply 802-899-4934 I think is the inventor and supplier. They say supply is limited for 2004 in the ad I saw in the Maple News. I saw one today for the first time. They are small. My dealer has doubts about them. I'm keeping my mind open. They have to be put in straight with a 4 ounce brass hammer because they can act like a nail and sliver off a chunk of wood and partially plug if you aren't careful.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I do hope they work, but I also have my doubts because maple king sent me down one. I think it is a good idea and concept and I am courious to see the results in a year or two. Too many people getting into this industry to just make money at others expense.

[maple hill sugarhouse 2]

With all the new spouts and gadgets to hit the maple market in the past year where is one to start looking? in my opinion on the small spouts(good idea) but lets see in independent test if they really work.Note: New plastic spouts will produce more sap in thier first year as they are cleaner. and proceeding years produce less due to contaminents on the end of the spout that grow. remove the contaminents and you have a practically new spout.Time is money they say.Are you going to remove the Micro's/Mini Adapters and still have time to tap in? I'd say that a 4,000 tap producer is looking at 4-5 extra day above thier normal time to "Tap in" to install these small spouts. Tree growth is another factor...Big Time in my opinion if your an oil fired operation your not thinning your sugarbush like you should?? wood fired your thinning a section of woods on a 10-15 year cycle keeping those maple trees growing 2" in Diameter in 3-5 years time Which should be able to handle the bigger spouts. I would expect a slight decrease(10-15%) in sap from the "Micro's" even under vacuum? Time will tell.The whole marketing behind the small spouts sales pitch is STERILE. Cleaner is better.
Running a leased Sugarhouse and 2000+ taps(800 health and the rest 7/16") on a 4X14 woodfired Leader Special,18-20" Vac. (2) 3/4" with 250 taps on each running into sugarhouse and should be the same in the bigger woods at the tap Due to new installation of 3 Boosters on 1,300 taps with 1 1/4" wet line and 1 1/2" dry line to first booster 700' away from sugarhouse pump and 1" wet and 1 1/4" dry branching off and going 700' uphill to the (3) 3/4" mainlines running into booster and the other 1" wet and 1 1/4" dry running 1200' to the last booster with a 3/4" and (Not being used this year 1"" mainline) coming into that booster. Looking to expand to 4,000 taps in 2005 sugaring season after i thin the bush of 150+ cord of trees that need to be removed to better inprove the health of the new taps coming online.
315 Taps on a "Good Natural Vacuum"(Cannot tap on snowshoes due to steepness) in a valley alog a brook
1954 Farmall M Tractor w/Log Winch
2003 Dodge Dakota truck club cab
4 Stihl Chain Saws(064-045-036-015)And 3 other brand X's
Deleval Vac. Pump
(1)Tanaka Tapper and (1) Ariens
Firestorm(Worst make) cordless drill for the health spouts.
Last but not least a Wife that wants nuthin' to due with sugaring but would like to see some$ come her way(Good luck)

Last comment--Is on the Accu-u-cup.Its good for the little producer with a small rig who makes 1 gallon an hour and cannot test the syrup with a hydrometer in a gallon of syrup in their draw off into a pail but worthless as teats on a bull to the larger evaporator operator who draws of batches to the tune of 4-5gals at a whack.Still a very great invention idea.
Thanks for you time,
Kevin Sargent

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Kevin,

Nice to see you have an open mind. It seems every time something new comes along, everyone wants to jump on the wagon because of the marketing and sometimes "lies" that the companies put out.

Good luck this year, sounds like you have a very nice operation! :D

[Slatebelt*Pa*Tapper]

I'm gonna get me some of these here type next year(SPGS). Right now Ive got rolled alum spouts, and home made wooden spouts(oak Dowls).
But Im gonna get these for bucket use next year.
There stainless steel.
SPGS
Grimm Stainless Steel Spout w/Hook