Cost to tube a woods?

[jmayerl]

So what have most of you spent to tube your woods? I keep hearing that it cost $10-12 per tap to put in tubing. That seems WAY too high. My friend I I are going to start next month on his 80. We walked it and it seems to have about 50 trees/acre with a avg DBH of about 18". The woods is about 95% mature maple. The front half has a North slope of about 5ish% with the back being a south slope of about 15%, pretty much looks like a perfect setup. We will be starting on a 15 acre section up front and plan on setting it up for vacuum and adding it maybe next year. Anyways, we got a pretty good estimate together and came up with $1800(no tank, just pipes and fitting) thats less than $2.50/tap. How tight should we pull mainlines and lats during the summer? Does this like a low estimate? The mains will be under 500' and we will be going with 1" blue mains. Comments, questions or concerns.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

I have heard as low as 7 and high 12 per tap

[collinsmapleman2012]

ive been taught about $6, and thats after you add the tank and vacuum. lots of variables though

[3rdgen.maple]

My first 200 I put in on vac the tubing and fittins alone I was just under 6 bucks a tap but it was a short run tubing setup, about 800 feet of mainline and longest lateral was about 100 feet. There are so many variables to a tubing setup that can change cost in a hurry, length of mainlines, black poly or 30p, how long are the lats, number of taps on a lat, sap ladders, etc etc.
But yes less than 2.50 a tap on vac sounds unrealistic in my mind. 1 darn saddle is more than 2 bucks how many taps you putting on a lateral to get that number?

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

My first 200 I put in on vac the tubing and fittins alone I was just under 6 bucks a tap but it was a short run tubing setup, about 800 feet of mainline and longest lateral was about 100 feet. There are so many variables to a tubing setup that can change cost in a hurry, length of mainlines, black poly or 30p, how long are the lats, number of taps on a lat, sap ladders, etc etc.
But yes less than 2.50 a tap on vac sounds unrealistic in my mind. 1 darn saddle is more than 2 bucks how many taps you putting on a lateral to get that number?

he said planning for vac so 5 to 10 then how long are the lat runs?

[3rdgen.maple]

he said planning for vac so 5 to 10 then how long are the lat runs?

Yeah I know he said planing for vac but he didnt say 5 to 10 per lat. Thats what should be strived for but at less than 2.50 Im thinking he calculated for more than that. Lets think about this. Lets say he did 5 taps on a lat, a 100 foot lats, 5 end line rings for 5 trees, 5 taps, and 1 saddle. thats 5.50 for lat tubing, 1.75 for taps, 1.35 for endline ring, .33 for end line hook, 2.25 for a saddle. Thats 2.23 cents and does not include mainline, mainline wire, or side ties, or mainline ties or any other addittional fittings or drops.

[waysidemaple]

My current tubing that I am putting in is at 9 dollars a tap, but, all but maybe 10 or 15 of my laterals are under 50 feet and none over 75 feet. Most of those lateral only have 3 to 4 taps on them. So the cost really jumps due to all the saddles. That doesnt include the tank either.

Scott

[220 maple]

Rule of thumb from a tubing installer.
3 rolls of tubing per 100 taps
6 ft of 3/4 pipeline per tap.
All woods vary to some degree, he said that those two items are pretty close for the modern tubing set ups

Mark 220 Maple

[jmayerl]

Yeah I know he said planing for vac but he didnt say 5 to 10 per lat. Thats what should be strived for but at less than 2.50 Im thinking he calculated for more than that. Lets think about this. Lets say he did 5 taps on a lat, a 100 foot lats, 5 end line rings for 5 trees, 5 taps, and 1 saddle. thats 5.50 for lat tubing, 1.75 for taps, 1.35 for endline ring, .33 for end line hook, 2.25 for a saddle. Thats 2.23 cents and does not include mainline, mainline wire, or side ties, or mainline ties or any other addittional fittings or drops.

Here is what we looked at already. We have set up rope where we are looking at running mainlines. We set them up 150' or so feet apart. we then took different sample areas and set up rope laterals. We are striving for 7 taps/lat with some down to 5 and up to 9. So at 7taps per lat we have 60ish ft 5/16, 7 taps, 7 T's, 1 saddle, 1 Y for a price of about12.50 or 1.79/tap. We should need about 800' mainline, wire, tie's, some y's, valve's and maybe some other odds and ends so say about $500 there.
As far as saddles go we plan on spending alot of time measuring with the ropes before putting anything up because we are trying to be as efficient as possible. double saddles cost the same as single's.

[3rdgen.maple]

Man if adk1 reads about you running ropes all over the woods planning your tubing out your going to set him back a few years in his planning stages. lol. All I can say is good luck I just do not see how your going to get under that 2.50 a tap. If you do you sure did something I couldnt. I sure reword that, I could but wanted maximum sap output per tap. Take into consideration also that saving a little money might cost you some sap and the payoff time on your tubing could be longer. I personally think a double saddle is a no no. Mine as well run 14 taps on your lats as I think sap is going to be backed up at the saddle. If you run singles your sap output and vac transfer will more than likely get you a higher production level by seasons end. Keep us posted of your progress. It is alot of fun watching the taps all come together and that first run of the year on a new setup.

[Thad Blaisdell]

First- 150 feet apart for your mainlines? That is way to far. Half of that is still a stretch. If you are trying to maximize your woods you need to shoot for 4 taps per line. You will get some 3, and some 5's. But 150' apart will give you some lats 250' long, after you zig zag between trees. Plan on 60-75' apart with 4 taps per tree.

My woods I average 28 taps per roll of tubing. At $50 per roll you are looking at just under $2.00 per tap with tubing, now you have the drop, roughly .75 with a stubby. Then you have end hook, connector to wire and saddle. $2.50/4=.625. So in laterals alone you will have $3.40ish. Now you have to add in mainline, conductor line, wire, manifolds, and all the fitting for those. You are looking at $6.50 to $7.00 per tap.

Now you can say that I am wrong on the first part and you can make your lats as long as you want but your production with vacuum will go way down. And as far as adding vacuum a year later that is crazy. They vacuum pump is the least expensive and most productive thing that can be added. You say you are going to do roughly 750 taps. You should expect .25 gallons per tap gravity. That will be 185 gallons (or less), but with vacuum you should expect to make 375 (or more). That extra will more than pay for itself in the first year. Do it right the first time and you will not have to do it again for a long long time.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

Man if adk1 reads about you running ropes all over the woods planning your tubing out your going to set him back a few years in his planning stages. lol.

ROFLLLLLLLLLLLLL:lol::lol::lol:

[Meridian Maples]

I have to agree with Thad, do it right the first time. I've got a tubing system that is around 15 years old, and when we put it in we were trying to get by cheap, but doing it right at that time. Now learning more over the years I just look at the old set up and shake my head. I've been working at upgrading it, but it takes more then twice the work to re-do it. I've been doing a new woods the last two years and setting up a new woods the right way is so much easier then redoing one. I don't know where you are in Wisconsin, but I suggest before setting up a woods you should really look at a couple peoples set-ups. Everyone does things a little different so you may pick up some pointers from more then one person. I'm over in Athens and if your in the area I could show you an old set up, and a new one.
I'm currently putting new tubing in my new woods right now. I'm hoping to have the mainline for the section I'm doing done tonight. The bugs have gotten really bad in the last week!!

[jmayerl]

yup we have looked at lots of setups and have seen some good and some REALLY bad. As far as main lines 150' apart, The longest lateral would then be 75' maybe 85 with a little zig zagging but for the most part the laterals will be fairly straight shots with some mild bend around a few trees. Unless you guys do something different out east you can look at it like this. 3 mainlines running north to south with the laterals going east and west off of both sides the mainline. as far as vacuum goes, if we can find a decent dairy pump I guess then maybe I can see it only costing $2000(bigger storage tank, releaser, and running electric) but Im thinking to go with a good high vac setup will be another $3000.

[Thad Blaisdell]

Are you running your mainlines up and down the hill? or side to side? I cant see how you are getting laterals off from both sides unless you are going up the hill. If that is the case you are doing it incorrectly. You need to run your lines like a tree. The trunk is the conductor, the limbs are your mainlines and then the branches are the lats.

[wiam]

Are you running your mainlines up and down the hill? or side to side? I cant see how you are getting laterals off from both sides unless you are going up the hill. If that is the case you are doing it incorrectly. You need to run your lines like a tree. The trunk is the conductor, the limbs are your mainlines and then the branches are the lats.

I am with Thad on this. It appears you are planing on running mainlines down the slope. Not a good idea. Mainlines should be as flat as possible (still maintaining slope) and laterals should be as steep as possible.

William

[Parker]

The last woods I built, 900 taps-1800' from the tank to the first tap (which I made almost .5gal/tap from last season-would have been more if I had not been spread so thin) cost about $10 a tap by the time I was done (tubeing and fittings)...this is a vac. set up with a conductor line,,Valves and gauges @ each lateral mainline (2-1"x1" T's , 1 1" to 3/4" t=$5.55,,3/4" ball valve=$9.00, vac.gauge=$10.00 hose clamps @ each lat. maine=$14, fittings for vac. gauge and valve=$4.00,,,Thats about $45 @ each lateral mainline entrance with the cost of the mainline used to make the connection-booster)...5-8 taps per lateral line.I use winches @ the beggining and end of each mainline and conductor line ($5 each)..doing it right the first time is well worth the investment...IMHO....spend more money on the install and make some serious syrup!!!

[Typical8]

The strive for 5 rule can be some what misleading. Yeah I grab 5 when it's handy but I have been running a 3 / per lat. average on all my new tubing. Keep the lats short and straight if you want a high efficient bush. This means mainline distances of 70- 100 ft.. Put up the extra mainline rather than try running longer lats.

Also try to avoid the dairy vac pumps if you can. I know here in Wisconsin they just about give them away but they are not made to do the 24 -27 inches. If you go with the dairy pump get 2 so you have a backup. Nothing worse than blowing the vac pump in the middle of season.

[markcasper]

I would say in regard to the above post: If you have a limited amount of money, spend it on the tubing first, you can always get by with a cheap pump for a few years. If you spend big bucks on a shiny pump and equipment, but don't have the tubing right, you are not gaining anything.

[brookledge]

I would say in regard to the above post: If you have a limited amount of money, spend it on the tubing first, you can always get by with a cheap pump for a few years. If you spend big bucks on a shiny pump and equipment, but don't have the tubing right, you are not gaining anything.

True. When starting off spend the money on the tubing and set the woods up right. Then as you get going you can upgrade the vac.
Keith

[maple flats]

Yes, an old dairy pump will work fine a year or 2. Just stay within it's limitations for vacuum levels. Build the tubing correctly now, then after you made syrup off it a year or 2 get the better pump.