Tap Or Not To Tap Steep North Face Slope

[briansickler]

Considering tapping the very steep north facing slope across the road. I don't know if it will be worth the investment to tube it or not. It seems that the sun never hits it much as it is very steep. I estimate there are about 400-500 taps. I just don't know how it will run (or not run). Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

[adk1]

How steep is steep? Pics?

[briansickler]

If it were any steeper you couldn't walk it. It's pretty hard to do...worse with snow on. No pictures. The fact that it faces due north is my concern. I can walk it...I've driven deer across it my whole life. Will the trees ever thaw and run?

[adk1]

buddy, there is only one way to tell!

[Thad Blaisdell]

If its a maple tap it. I have all four sides of my hill tapped. With high vacuum it will run that is just plain simple truth. Dont be afraid of it.

[lew]

Thad,

I too am considering tapping a north facing slope, but I am worried about production as I have to lease the woods. Do you have any hard numbers on how much the north slope actually produces compared to a south or east slope?

[twitch]

tap it! you,ll never know if yo dont

[maple flats]

Do the trees have leaves on them now? If yes, the sap ran there, tap it. Consider this, regardless of the exposure the sap will run. The timing will be slightly later, your south exposure and sections in a stadium shape any aspect from east to west will run earliest, while the north exposure runs slightly later. This is true early season, it may just be the first group that runs and during late season the north will flow while the others have either slowed or stopped with bud break. During the best flow portion of the season, they will both flow but the north may start a little later after a freeze. I tap any area that has enough tap potential to warrant tubing and collection effort. I will not tap an area with too few taps for the investment in tubing and collection time and expense.

[lew]

The statement "just tap it" is easy to say when you're not the one footing the bill for 500 taps at about $7,500-$10,000 to jsut find out like brian is. Or I am looking at a woods with about 2,000 taps, $30-$40,000 to find out. I'd like a little more info before I jump in.

[Thad Blaisdell]

Thad,

I too am considering tapping a north facing slope, but I am worried about production as I have to lease the woods. Do you have any hard numbers on how much the north slope actually produces compared to a south or east slope?

I guess my numbers would say this..... I made just barely under .5 gallons per tap this year. Of which 1/4 or more of my trees are north side. If they didnt run then my other trees did absolutely fantastic. All of my sap comes directly to the sugarhouse, there is no real way to distinguish which group does what.

Lew,

Exactly why is it costing you so much to put in 2000 taps???? The material cost is about $14000 probably less. I cant see where the other money would go???? tank and releaser would not cost much more.

[bees1st]

I had a small bush on a north slope that I was allowed to use for one season. The guy who ran the tubing wanted me to buy it from him. They logged it the next spring so I only had that one season to go by.But it never really ran well compared to my other locations. So at this point I'm leary of north slopes.

[Thad Blaisdell]

I had a small bush on a north slope that I was allowed to use for one season. The guy who ran the tubing wanted me to buy it from him. They logged it the next spring so I only had that one season to go by.But it never really ran well compared to my other locations. So at this point I'm leary of north slopes.

was that with or without high vacuum?

[802maple]

We tap north and south trees. If it is a warm year, those trees will be your life savers, on cold years like this one they don't produce as well sometimes. More then not though they produce right along with the rest

[ennismaple]

We have a lot of north facing slopes since our ridges run east-west. They do run later than the south slopes but its defintely worthwhile to tap them.

[maplecrest]

north face at higher elevation will suprise you. when everything is froze up, they will run when there is warmer air up there. walk in, in the morning and suprise a tank full of sap and comming in. go for a walk to see that they are running.

[adk1]

The statement "just tap it" is easy to say when you're not the one footing the bill for 500 taps at about $7,500-$10,000 to jsut find out like brian is. Or I am looking at a woods with about 2,000 taps, $30-$40,000 to find out. I'd like a little more info before I jump in.

thats seems abit steep doesnt it. If it is that steep, I wouldnt put in a vac system on it.

[bees1st]

thad ,that bush was just gravity, and only one year,so perhaps it's not a good model

[TRAILGUY]

All mine are gravity and my steepest is a n/e slope 45 taps per run 5/16 tubing only lots of natural vacuum did well

[Papa John's Sugar Shack]

I run 5000 on a northwest lot it ran 105000 gallons this year alone at 1900' I don't think it's a bad thing to tap northern lots.

[lew]

First let me say that after reading my last reply, I must say that I sounded kind of snotty and that was definitely not intended, my apologies if anybody took it that way.

Thad,
I came up with my number by using numbers from an expansion I did this year and adding somewhat "known" numbers. Here goes.

I added 600 taps to an existing woods at a cost of $7,500, or $12.50 per tap. That did not include a vacuum pump, releaser, tank, electric service, more barrels, misc.

2,000 x $12.50 = $25,000
releaser and pump = $5,000
tank = $5,000
electric pole and service $1,000
barrels = $$6000

total= $42,000 + misc.

Some prices may be high, but there are ALWAYS expenses forgotten about.

[lew]

Papa John,

That is the kind of numbers I am after. Is that a good, bad or regular year for you?

[Papa John's Sugar Shack]

Lew,
These numbers are with in 5k of each other the past two year. I liked it so much adding 3k more this fall.

[lew]

papa john,

How much vacuum are you running? Are you using check valves? When are you tapping, a week later than south slope, at the same time?

[3rdgen.maple]

Lew did you have someone put in the system for you? I for the one cannot come up with how you have spent so much money on 600 taps alone. The only way I can even guess it cost that much is that someone did it for you, you have very long laterals, one tap on a saddle and a whole lot of mainline. When Im done with my 400 tap expansion added with the 200 on vac I already have I will be about half that cost.

[Papa John's Sugar Shack]

Lew

We are also using wet/dry line system.

[Papa John's Sugar Shack]

Lew

We are running 24" of vacuum, we are not using check valves we tap the 5k on the south side starting Feb,11 then move to the northern side.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

Lew did you have someone put in the system for you? I for the one cannot come up with how you have spent so much money on 600 taps alone. The only way I can even guess it cost that much is that someone did it for you, you have very long laterals, one tap on a saddle and a whole lot of mainline. When Im done with my 400 tap expansion added with the 200 on vac I already have I will be about half that cost.

he bought it all from leader? hehehehehehe

[lew]

Took a while to find all my receipts, but my total comes to $4580, roughly. I know I used some things out of the sugarhouse and purchased other things that I didn't find the receipts to yet, but that is pretty close. Call it $5,000 and I'd say that is safe. I came up with the $7,500 because I made other upgrades to the woods (like replacing 800 feet of 1 inch wet line with 1 1/4 to handle the extra taps and those to come on line this year. Also included was 1,400 new drops to replace old, and other upgrades for the year. That's where the $7,500 came from. Good thing we had this "argument". My memory is better than I thought, I remembered more than there actually was. As some have suggested I did use Leader mainline. I like it much better than black line for temp. reasons, and being able to see what is happening where in the lines. I also installed stainless steel vacuum boosters with brass ball valves. No vac. gauges (yet). All tubing was Darveau's semirigid. Yes, the rigid tubing is cheaper, but for $10 a roll difference ($300) I'll take the semirigid any day due to its memory and ease of use and repair. any way, after all is said and done I am down to $8.33 per tap instead of $12.50. glad some one called me on that. Now I can afford to add more taps.

[802maple]

But Lew, like all other sugarmakers you didn't count your time. I will hire you as you work cheap LOL

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

But Lew, like all other sugarmakers you didn't count your time. I will hire you as you work cheap LOL

always looking for something for nothing hehehehe, maybe he throw us a package deal:D

[Thad Blaisdell]

But Lew, like all other sugarmakers you didn't count your time. I will hire you as you work cheap LOL

You get what you pay for.....LOL. when doing it for myself I do it for fun. When doing it for someone else its either for for gas, cash or grass. Nothing is for free. I am not sure I would want to hire someone to work in my woods that was that inexpensive. It may cost you more in the end.:lol:

[briansickler]

This particular slope is very steep. The sun follows the ridge (behind it) from east to west.... so the trees are in the shadow all day mostly. The late afternoon sun hits it for a short time just before dark. I can see how on a warmer spring it would be great. But on a year like this last one not very good until late in the season. I'll probably have to try some of it and see what happens. I'd like to tap all of it and be guaranteed excellent results. I guess that's what I was looking for when I started this thread.:D I will figure it out though....one way or the other. I should get some great natural vac on the steep slope. Thanks

Brian Sickler

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I have 405 taps on the south side and got 2700 gallon of sap gravity out of them this year and the 240 taps on the north side yielded 2800 gallons. Granted, I tapped the north side 2.5 weeks later and the weather was a touch better while they were in but the cool temps on the north side allowed them to run when the south sides would have dried up from all the sunshine they were getting. Personally, if I had a choice I would prefer that all my taps were on the north side. It is a lot steeper than about all my south side taps but the sap, tubing, trees and mainlines all stay cooler.

[adk1]

I have a S/SE sugarbush. WHen I was thinnng at first I planned on taking everything but maple and some other mixed hardwood out. I ahve some small hemlocks etc. Then I decided to leave the small hemlock that were below the maples just to keep the maple roots cooler etc.