Lookout Vermont

[3rdgen.maple]

There has been some talk amongst polititians in NY about increasing the Syrup crop in the state. So tonight on the local news was a little segment on maple syrup. It opened up with some stats about the state and that 60% of NY is forest and less than 1% of all maple trees in the state are tapped. It also noted that profits are at 12 million dollars for NY and with education and more taps we have the potential to reach 92 million in profits. Also there is talk that there is a 215,000 tap operation in the works in the catskills. Mixed feelings about this, excited about the potential for an increase in our state syrup production and not pleased about it driving down prices.

[adk1]

Every producer around here says that the market can handle it. Thats what I hear anyways. I ahve always known that NY was way way underproduced. I always wondered why NY didnt have the same concentrations of producers as they do in VT. I think it goes hand in hand with farming communities in VT, at least to a point.

[3rdgen.maple]

Well the only thing that could make me think that is true if I knew how much syrup was actually imported into NY. Im sure its alot but 80 million more dollars worth??????

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

so what you guys are saying is every year you depend on VT sugar makers to bail you out of low production quantity?:lol:

[adk1]

I wish that NY had the concentration of producers that VT has per capita. Not for the income, but for the tradition. It is a great way to teach the younger generations how to make a quality product and involves alot of responsibility. That is why I am starting my own operation while the kids are young. Will be great memories.

[collinsmapleman2012]

i had a conversation about this in canada with mike farrell, and we were discussing that despite the fact that NY has a lot more potential taps, there are two problems. first, there is the issue over the state land, and this limits quite a few taps. if you drive through the adirondacks, you see these large tracts of land with maples spread all over. the other issue is that the land, especially around my area, is split up into many parcels and this causes issues like multiple owners and then the maples are more spread out. for instance, some of the taps that my school has are 3 miles in one direction, then i offload the sap and go 4 miles the other direction to get more sap. this is all done with a tractor and tanker, and some nights we take 3 or 4 trips to the bush that is farther away. the guy that we buy sap from is almost 7 miles away, and he brings up to 3000 gals. a day.
however, if the state legislators were to help producers then some of these problems may be reduced, especially the state land issue. i think it is a good thing for maple in NY but only if the politicians need to be watched and helped to make sure that they are helping, not hurting us.

[adk1]

The state land issue will never happen. This is because the Adirondacks are owned by the entire state, NYS folks, and also the politicians with the greatest pull) are bound and determined that nothing happen to the Adirondacks which are forever wild predominatly. Sounds great to those city folks, but really puts a burden on those who live in it trying to carve out a living. I live in them.

Put it this way, if the state were to allow selective cutting, we could probably wipe out our debt and you probably wouldnt even know that logging had occured in many areas.

[Dennis H.]

I just ready an article in the Maple News about an operation that is starting up in NY that will have 500,000 taps! The name is Crown Maple Syrup.

They are predicting to make about 200-300,000 gals of syrup. In the article they said that this year NY produced about 400,000 gals of syrup.

Some of the other info about the operation is that it will be on about 5,000 acres of land. Not sure if just one large tract or multiple smaller tracts.


That will be one heck of an operation!

[BryanEx]

Their current web site claims 500,000 gallons of sap.. not taps from 800 acres. I haven't received my latest copy of Maple News yet so perhaps there is a majour expansion going on. You can visit Crown Maple here;

http://crownmaple.com/

- Bryan

[3rdgen.maple]

You NYers should go check out that site Bryan posted. Look in the IN THE NEWS section and read the article in the Poughkipsee Times about Chuck Schumer. Very interesting stuff. What I did get out of the website besides another producer rying to manipulate the consumer with fancy wording making it sound like only their syrup is worthy of buyin is they are selling all retail directly to the consumer. Mainly NYC.
That specific article should clear up the STATE LAND debate as the TAP ACT is to open up private land to producers. Which is what the talk has been about all along. I read a few years back that the state will give some good incentives to land owners on their taxes. It will be interesting to see what progresses out of this as it has been a few years already with no progress made. Im not holding my breath especially since the Tap act involves 20 million dollars in grant money which we all know NY does not have and if it ever does the state will probably give themselves a raise and spend the money else where.

[xyz5150]

Your right 3rdgen their syrup with " aromas of popcorn and peanuts " sounds so good i think i will just dump all of mine.:lol: Actually if my syrup smelled like popcorn, peanuts or anything but maple i would probably freak out trying to find out what contaminated it.:lol:

[collinsmapleman2012]

i want to know what makes their syrup the purest on the earth.
it kind of bothers me that they are marketing their syrup to be the only good and "purest" syrup ever. i mean, its good for the industry as a whole to increse the awareness and perspective on syrup in NY. however, i think that this kind of advertising is going to hurt the smaller producers in the state. (which would be pretty much everyone else lol)
maybe if they work it out with the state association then they might be more focused on the industry as a whole.

[BryanEx]

Really good points collinsmapleman2012. Every State and Provincial producer boasts having the best syrup but that marketing can also be taken too far in my opinion. As I was working on links for Sugarbush.Info I ran across several producers saying things like their syrup was "real" or tasted better because it wasn't run through an RO or that their wood fired evaporator was somehow better than an oil one. With all things equal (processing. filtering, density, & grade) the differences in taste has to do with the soil content and the seasonal influences. We all make maple syrup the same way more or less, there are no additives or derivatives, so it's not like any one of us actually influences the taste in some way. I've had years when my syrup had a slight vanilla after taste. I didn't add any vanilla to do that... it's just the way the syrup was for me that particular year.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

I do know if you run your sap through an RO to a high concentrate it has less maple flavor so let them think that and they can sell their syrup to all the flatlanders that like that, we will still keep our customers because the proof is in the pudding as they say. Schumer is a IDIOT anyways

[Thad Blaisdell]

I do know if you run your sap through an RO to a high concentrate it has less maple flavor so let them think that and they can sell their syrup to all the flatlanders that like that, we will still keep our customers because the proof is in the pudding as they say. Schumer is a IDIOT anyways

Just asking,,, do you really believe this I couldnt tell exactly by the way you worded it. ps not the Schumer part.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

Just asking,,, do you really believe this I couldnt tell exactly by the way you worded it. ps not the Schumer part.

do I beleive" that sap ran through an RO at a high concentrate has less flavor" yes I do. Maybe the Doc. has something but this is what I found doing taste test. Not scientific but flatlanderish:D

[3rdgen.maple]

You know the more I keep reading this thread and the more I think about it the more its burning my shorthairs. It really disturbs me when a producer makes such stupid claims to try to make their product sound superior over everyone elses. Obviously this clown is not a Mapletrader member. I am planning on nitpicking the crap out of his claims and sending him a friendly email to remind him that he should be trying to work with the maple industry instead of trying to make everyone elses syrup look like it was produced from swamp water.

[3rdgen.maple]

Good god did anybody else notice how cheap his stuff is. Only 19.95 for 12 oz.

[Thad Blaisdell]

do I beleive" that sap ran through an RO at a high concentrate has less flavor" yes I do. Maybe the Doc. has something but this is what I found doing taste test. Not scientific but flatlanderish:D

Now with your taste tests was it apples to apples or what. The only difference in flavor is caused by it being cooked less time. It has nothing to do with removing the flavor. It has been proven time and time again by expert tasters who could not pick out either plain sap, some RO and High RO. I would be willing to bet that if we took 20 samples of syrup of equal parts RO and not, you could not pick out which was which.

[collinsmapleman2012]

some of this stuff i read on there its completely outrageous. these "artisians" as they call themselves state that the syrup has flavors, almost like flavored aunt jemima. it should be marketed as a product with a distinct taste, and although some flavors do become apparent, this doesnt happen with every bottle/batch.
another thing is that some of their information is completely wrong. this just further hurts us, by giving consumers the wrong ideas about our syrup.
if some of us ny producer started asking for small changes, then we would all benefit. also, someone should try getting them in touch with the association just as another way to keep them in check. if they listen to us then it will benefit us all.

[markct]

to be honest after reading there website i didnt think it was that bad. we all strive to make the best syrup we can, and we should take pride in that and tell our customers we do just as his website does. he never says a word about anyone else using poor process or methods, just says how he makes his and why they feel its such a fine syrup. i actualy think its a very honest and realistic description, better than many that go on and on about the the labor to empty buckets everyday with horses, and then ya get to there place and theres vac pumps and tubing all over, and the only buckets they have a 3 hanging on trees in the front lawn!

[802maple]

do I beleive" that sap ran through an RO at a high concentrate has less flavor" yes I do. Maybe the Doc. has something but this is what I found doing taste test. Not scientific but flatlanderish:D

All I have to say to this (in a friendly manner) is bull. My first sugarbush of 3500 would make the lightest, least flavored syrup that you have ever tasted and there wasn't a RO within 40 miles of it. The second sugarbush that I was involved in with a RO, that made high concentrate up to 24 percent had a very heavy maple flavor from the beginning of the year to the end. I have had this discussion with many a sugarmaker and just because someone with a RO happened to make light flavored syrup or off flavored syrup it was always the RO's fault, well I am here to say that I bought syrup for 20 plus years for Maple Grove which most years I bought 10 of thousands of gallons and I found more often then a lot of people would know that RO's made just as good flavored and sometimes even better syrup then straight sap operations. There are alot of sugarmakers winning contests with RO's over traditional made products.

Now that I have ranted lets get back to topic, I am sure there will be alot of expansion over the future years and then the price will go down and sugarmakers will start dropping out just like they have in the past. It is the nature of the beast. Just here in Vermont I would bet that we aren't tapping over 20 percent of our Maples. If I could go onto Mount Grant and what we call the Big Basin area here behind our house I could easily tap 300 to 400,000, but just like the Adirondacks it is off limits due to being forever wild thanks to federal government and our wonderful senators Leahy and Sanders to add to there legacy.All the time they are out there preaching how they are for the little people and making jobs and then they pull this a few years ago. I guess the rain is making me ugly so I need to stop typing. LOL

[BryanEx]

do I beleive" that sap ran through an RO at a high concentrate has less flavor" yes I do. Maybe the Doc. has something but this

Actually... Dr Tim Perkins does have something on this but I can't seem to find the link for it right now (not like me :rolleyes: ). Pardon the pun but it all boiled down to there being no difference in taste.

[Homestead Maple]

It's all in how you advertise something and who your trying to appeal to. I've never heard maple syrup flavor described with such words as; roasted nuts, salted caramel, brown butter, rye, toffee, roasted ground coffee, toasted almonds? Maybe the new syrup regs won't be far off in using the descriptions proposed.
Quite possibly the purest syrup on earth!!

[KenWP]

The sugar content of my sap this year was way higher and my syrup tastes way different then past years.It is just as dark but just tastes sweet instead of maple.Could be because of the snow I could only tap 30 trees instead of the 200 I did last year and the older maples are way out in the bush.

[3rdgen.maple]

The sugar content of my sap this year was way higher and my syrup tastes way different then past years.It is just as dark but just tastes sweet instead of maple.Could be because of the snow I could only tap 30 trees instead of the 200 I did last year and the older maples are way out in the bush.

Ken I think the reason why is because you improved your evaporator and are boiling it off faster now. Man cant wait to here the replies on this one:rolleyes:

[802maple]

Ken I think the reason why is because you improved your evaporator and are boiling it off faster now. Man cant wait to here the replies on this one:rolleyes:

You trying to get me wound up again.

[DrTimPerkins]

I do know if you run your sap through an RO to a high concentrate it has less maple flavor

As 802 has already said, this doesn't seem to be the case. All available research to date has shown that (experienced maple) people can't distinguish the flavor difference in blind taste tests. Flavor is mostly dictated more by the chemistry of sap coming from the trees and the effects of microrganims on that sap.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

Thanks again Doc

boy oh boy did I kick a hornets nest this time:)

I think leahy and sanders have done great things for the State, and they just keep moving this Great State foreward into the future.:);)

[802maple]

Thanks again Doc

boy oh boy did I kick a hornets nest this time:)

I think leahy and sanders have done great things for the State, and they just keep moving this Great State foreward into the future.:);)

You thought you kicked a bees nest earlier, you really don't want me to get going on our senators do you.

[Butch]

I will chime in with this: we made light syrup from totally clear, i.e. low microorganism count sap, and made darker from some clear and some slightly cloudy (higher microorganism count) and it all tastes great! We tap a variety of maples in different locations (therefore varying soil, drainage, sunlight, etc) and mix it all to boil - long story short no difference in taste batch to batch, just color, and friends, family and customers all love it...CAN'T WAIT till next season!

My question is, how can I effectively filter without a filter press???

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

You thought you kicked a bees nest earlier, you really don't want me to get going on our senators do you.

Well 802 I think we should continue this conversation over a few beers at the Maple Rama this summer, maybe 3rdgen, Thad and the Doc will show up:lol:.

[802maple]

So now you want me to get drunk and talk about our senators, boy you are a sap for punishment. I will see you there, be ready.

[TapME]

Well 802 I think we should continue this conversation over a few beers at the Maple Rama this summer, maybe 3rdgen, Thad and the Doc will show up:lol:.

Now wish maple rama you talking about?

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

Now wish maple rama you talking about?

Addison County VT like july 27 or so

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

So now you want me to get drunk and talk about our senators, boy you are a sap for punishment. I will see you there, be ready.

if 3rdgen comes over to our great state maple rama I will mount my tank to the top of my jeep and pull into the field dayshahahahahahahahaha

[3rdgen.maple]

You trying to get me wound up again.

LOL I was actually trying to get someone riled up I just didnt have one in mind yet when I typed that. But hey you fit the profile. Obviously I was just busting chops.

[3rdgen.maple]

I cant speak for 802 but if he thinks the way I do about politics ( which it sounds like he does) you wont be able to shut me up for a long long time and my head will probably explode from pure anger from my own ranting without anyone saying a word edge wise. Then when Im done you guys can listen to 802 and your heads will explode. It just might not be the wise thing to do and if you invovle alcohol, the headlines in the next morning news would read as follows. Two maple syrup producers unite in Vermont for a drink and discussion of politics and were found on the whitehouse lawn where eyewitnesses claim they were ranting, raving and throwing empty beer bottles at the whitehouse before they passed out from a drunken stuber on the whitehouse lawn. Another eyewitness placed a red jeep with some kind of plastic tank stuck in the back seat with another drunken vermont maple producer screaming and yelling " I can get it out I can get it out, wtf I got it in there."

[802maple]

Oh if that were to be true, there would be one change, most likely those bottles that were being tossed would be full of something, with a rag sticking out of it, if you get my drift.

[sugarmountain]

802 is that why you arent on the select board anymore?:o

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

802 is that why you arent on the select board anymore?:o

OHHHHH 802 EX POLItard:lol:

[Daren]

I happen to be in the same political boat! My co-workers cringe any time a hint of conversations that relate to politics, universal health care, taxes, medicaid, and the self serving fat cats with benefits that only a tripping hippie from the 60's could have imagined that represent us in Washington surfaces! Why is it that it is usually those with the least exposure to the effects of rules that create them.... and then ensure that the exempt themselves from them? I'm getting started again aren't I?

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

I happen to be in the same political boat! My co-workers cringe any time a hint of conversations that relate to politics, universal health care, taxes, medicaid, and the self serving fat cats with benefits that only a tripping hippie from the 60's could have imagined that represent us in Washington surfaces! Why is it that it is usually those with the least exposure to the effects of rules that create them.... and then ensure that the exempt themselves from them? I'm getting started again aren't I?

wrong post but should be under favorite phrase
"what's good for the goose is good for the gander"