how to make a moisture trap, and unstick vanes?

[metzger1]

Does anyone have a way to make an inexpensive moisture trap? Never had one installed when we purchased the system as they never even mentioned it. Now we are dealing with stuck vanes cause sap got into the pump. And on that note, does anyone have any different ways to get the vanes unstuck without taking apart the pump? We have put kerosene in, and even put warm kerosene in hoping that the heat would disolve the sugar, but no luck so far.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Any large tank that can withstand vacuum and will allow moisture to collect will work A 6" piece of PVC 4 ft long with a intake at about the 24" high mark and the discharge on the top will collect the moisture. You want it to stand upright. Now we need more info what type of releaser are you using and type of pump. Unless you have a float type of trap you wont stop the sap from a bad releaser. Did you get moisture or pump a full load of sap into the pump? Is it a dry vane or oil type?

[sdixon8]

i made mine out of pvc has less than 50 bucks in the whole thing the pipe that goes threw the top goes into a ways and it has a 2 inch ball from a local supplier. and it has a pipe threaded into the bottom cap with a duck bill on the end to drain when the vac is off.

[metzger1]

Thanks for the help on the moisture trap guys. The pump is an oil cooled airablo with a reclaimer, and the releaser is a Lappierre double, and what happened was it locked up and didn't release a couple times and all the sap backed up into the top horizontal extractor, and I asssume into the line from the pump as well. It worked for awhile afterwards, and though we didn't flush it ( I know now that we should have) we always regularly drain water off the bottom of the reclaimer. Then one day on start up, it started gaining vac, then suddenly just started spinning freely. You could hear the difference, like it was no longer under load. A guy at Bascoms said he was sure it was the vanes stuck. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[metzger1]

Ok, thinking about this some more, and what you are both saying about the moisture trap seems to be pretty much the same, but I'm, not understanding the ball thing. Is it like the ball that is in the releasers that floats up and plugs the pipe on the side that goes into the pump, or am I on the wrong track?

[brookledge]

i'm not sure about your pump but I have taken out the vanes on my pumps many times over the last umpteen years. So you should be able to take it apart and clean up the vanes. Make sure they are good and free before putting back together. either replace the seal and gasket or maybe all you need is some silicone gasket maker. Also I usually spray some plain silicone on the vanes to make them good and slippery.
Keith

[metzger1]

Thanks Brookledge. I have heard that the vanes can be quite fragile, so I was leary of getting into that. But perhaps it's not that big of a deal.

[3rdgen.maple]

Run some rubbing alcohol through it. The vanes are probably not going to drop on the first try. Shut her down and tap on the armature of the pump with a mallet to help shake them loose. then run more rubbing alcohol through it and repeat till they free up. After several tries if they fail to drop your going to need to tear it down. Do this very soon as I think the kerosene you used just might have swelled those vanes to no repair if they are carbon vanes in it. Also when you put it back together do not lube the vanes. make sure they are nice and dry. Lubing the vanes will cause carbon and dirt to stick to them and cause premature failure as well. As far as the ball goes you put one in the moisture trap before sealing it up. Most use a raquet ball. When the moisture trap fills with sap the ball rises and plugs off the vac line going to the pump so sap does not transfer any further. 2 things I recomend between the pump and trap. A pressure release valve set so when the ball closes the vac off the pump does not over heat from not getting any air and the second is to put a drain valve on the bottom of the trap to drain it when it fills up, A check valve will work as well and it will open and drain on its own but that ball will still be sucked up to the top so it will still need tending to.

[sdixon8]

the ball we used was a ball for a dairy system it is designed to shut vacuum off if the trap becomes full. just make sure the ball is bigger than your pipe to the vac pump and make sure it is a hard ball or it will suck up the line back to your vac pump. if you want i can get some better pics of it and try to explain how it was build.

[Grade "A"]

I use a whole house filter (with clear housing), take out the filter and put a ball in it. This has saved my vac pump more then once.

[metzger1]

Thanks for the input. I will try the alcohol tomorrow and then tear it down if needed. I hope the kero hasn't done damage. Airablo says to use a diesel fuel and oil mixture to clean it out, and I have always heard that kero is pretty close to diesel, and figured that there was already some oil in it so it would be a mix. Sure hope it's OK. It's been in there for a few days now, as I have kept trying to run it and then let it soak and then run it again in hopes of getting it to free up.

[metzger1]

well the vanes were fine, but the key that holds the shaft in the cylinder was disinigrated. It appears, as far as I can tell at the moment, that the key is the only problem. Has anyone else had this problem? Does anyone know where I can get parts for this? It is a Delaval VP 76.

[brookledge]

What does the keyway look like? I would think you can get one made. If it is not a regular key.
Keith

[metzger1]

It is just a basic keyway, so I think you are right, I could have one made. We have a Delaval dealer in the area, so I am going to take it in to them and see what they suggest. I just wonder what caused it to break in the first place.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Doesn't that key way run the length of the drum? As far as WHY it would break remember that liquid doesn't compress and when it enters the drum.The drum will stall immediately and the pulley and motor wont:mad: Just like a gas engine that sucks in water its all over.

[metzger1]

Well, here's the thing, it looks like the keyway is short, but in talking to the Delaval guy today, this might be a bigger problem, not sure. It is difficult to tell on the diagram of the pump whether the shaft is supposed to be one piece or 2. It is a 2 piece now, with the pully end sliding into the drum with a keyway and key to hold it in place. It dosen't look like the shaft broke in 2 inside the drum, but the Delaval guy says he thought that model had a 1 piece shaft, but he agrees that it seems almost impossible that the shaft would have snapped in 2 inside the drum, and he says he has never seen that happen. So that's why I was wondering if anyone else had ever had a similar problem.

[metzger1]

Just a quick clarification. I said at the beginning that it was an Airablo, cause that's what my owners manual said, but the pump itself is made by Delaval

[metzger1]

well the shaft did break off inside the drum. The Delaval guy said it had to be a fault in the metal. But he also said that pump has not been made for well over 10 years and we bought the system new from Lapierre just 4 years ago. I realize that Lapierre didn't put the system together, Airablo did, but does anyone know if they use rebuilt pumps on these, or is there some other reason why a very old model pump would have been put on a new system?

[3rdgen.maple]

Yeah its called use up your old inventory before you use the new inventory. I see this all the time in my line of work. The question is can you get a new shaft? If not can you get one turned at a machine shop. In all my years of servicing pumps in the printing industry never seen one bust a shaft in half. Ive seen alot of locked up pumps that stall the motors or burn up a belt or break a coupling or bust a keyway but never a shaft. Just doesnt seem possible to me. What the shaft 5/8 or 3/4 inch in diameter? Something is not right. That pump was either put together with a broken shaft by a careless employee or made that way on purpose. Either that or the kerosene you used was some potent stuff lol. Getting a new shaft shouldnt set you back too much and after 4 years there no recourse now Im afraid.

[Paddymountain]

In the world of auutomatic transmissons,anything the is inside the trans can break, I found out years ago don't be surprised by what you see ,cause everyday they break in a different way.

[metzger1]

I took it to a friend of ours who works in a machine shop and is an engineer, and he thinks he can make a new shaft. He also said that the bearings are pretty bad which is why he thinks the shaft broke. Don't know why the bearings would have gone bad as they were still packed with grease, but I guess anything can happen. Just glad this happened in the final few days of the season. It does make me wonder about Airablo now though.