where's the money

[Brent]

I heard for several years that there was an increase in proffit when you make maple butter. From what I see with the prices of cream at $12 a lb, we get about the same as we do for 1/2 quart (500ml) of syrup.. You've got to buy the machine, boil he syrup, lose maybe 10% boiling, lose another 2-5% tranferring from the boiling pan to the creamer and lose another 2 - 5% that you can't get out of the creamer.

I think it's almost like working hard to make a bad thing out of a good thing .... except that we sell more value to each customer on the porch.

[mapleack]

Yes, but most producers don't sell their entire crop in pint bottles. Making cream makes more money on gallons of syrup that would otherwise be sold cheaply in bulk.

[Wardner in Tewksbury]

lose another 2-5% transferring from the boiling pan to the creamer and lose another 2 - 5% that you can't get out of the creamer
Why can't those losses be reclaimed by rinsing with hot water/sap and boiling back to syrup, or if in season, hanging the hardware over the evaporator?

[Brent]

An average batch might make $ 100 to $ 125 worth. It would be a lot of work just to revovering 2 or 3 dollars worth.

The point is that we arn't pricing this stuff right. You work a few hours to make less than you started with.

[Sugarmaker]

I think you can make about 8 lb of cream from a gallon of syrup? I have our price set at $8.00 for a half pound of cream. We don't have any 1 lb jars. so 16 x $8 = $128 per gallon of syrup when made into cream. Sounds good on paper. I agree that there is a lot of moves to get it into cream. We don't sell much cream other than during open house. I think we made about 3 gallons so far this year. A lot of folks have never tried it.
Chris

[Brent]

Well I have to say it certainly sells well. I think we've gone through 5 batches already and we'll be essentially sold out again this weekend. We make about 10-12 1/2lb tubs at at time.

But I weighed a 500ml jar empty and full and it was 400 grams. Not quite a 1/2 lb. Full it is 1100 grams. So 700 grams of syrup and sells for $12. We boil it stir it and put in in a 500 gram tub and get $ 12.

I just raised the price to $ 14.

We keep a sample and plastic spoons on the front porch. And unceremoniously give folks a taste while they chat about the weather or their dog .... virtually everyone buys a tub. One came back an ordered a dozen. It does bring in the money fast. But there is no way we're making anything extra let alone the triple you proffits that the machine makers boast. At this rate we'll never recover the $2000 D&G got for the machine. Great machine by the way.

[3rdgen.maple]

I guess I just dont follow what you are saying because if I do the math its a good profit. If I use your numbers I sell a gallon of syrup for 64 dollars, If I was to make cream and sell it at your price of 14 and like sugarmaker when I figured the pound ratio out last year it was right around 8lbs of cream of a gallon of syrup. So a 1/2 pd tub sells for 14x16tubs is 224 dollars. So that is a gain of 160 dollars for a gallon of syrup converted to cream versus selling it as just syrup. That is an awesome profit change in my book any day of the week.

[Brent]

except a 1/2 tub sells for $7 or $8.

a gallon weighs 12 lbs. which might give you 10 lbs of cream. At $12 a lb thats $120. An 10 tubs to pay for too.
And I think you'd be pushing to actually fill 10 tubs with what you get from a gallon. Eight is a good bet, maybe 9.

Thats a long way from triple the proffit the equipment makers promote.

[3rdgen.maple]

except a 1/2 tub sells for $7 or $8.

a gallon weighs 12 lbs. which might give you 10 lbs of cream. At $12 a lb thats $120. An 10 tubs to pay for too.
And I think you'd be pushing to actually fill 10 tubs with what you get from a gallon. Eight is a good bet, maybe 9.

Thats a long way from triple the proffit the equipment makers promote.

See this is where I get confused. You said you put it in 500 gram tubs. Isnt 500 grams a 1/2 pound? And you said you sell the 500 gram tub for 12 but just raised the price to 14. So I revert back to my math and here a gallon of syrup is 11 pounds and when I made a some last year it yeilded me just a little over 8 pounds of cream. and that is 16 1/2 pound tubs. At 14 bucks thats 224 dollars which is actually more than 3 times the amount I get for a gallon of syrup at 64 bucks. So IM still confused by your numbers. Is it possible you are over filling your containers? Where did the 7 or 8 dollars come from if your getting 14. Even if I sold it for 8 bucks that 128 dollars and 2 times the amount I would get for a gallon. I say in the business world anytime you can double your profits your doing something right.

[3rdgen.maple]

Oh boy hold on. Theres only 453 grams in a pound. My mistake. Now I got to redo all that math. :mad: Lets start over shall we. So you get 14 bucks a pound or there abouts a pound. so 7 x 16 = 112 bucks. 112 - the 64 I currently get a gallon of syrup is 48 bucks gain. I change my mind too much work, too much time and equipment is too expensive to get a good return on it. You would have to sell almost 42 pounds or 84 tubs to break even on the cream machine before you could even start payin for your labor and containers. Thanks for hanging in there with me and I do now agree with you. I say bump your syrup price up a buck a pint and call it good.

[Brent]

$2000 div by $12 = 166 1 lb or 500gram tubs

If folks don't mind paying $14 a lb then.
$ 2000 div by $ 14 = 142

You've got to be more careful with your prices these days. A quick google gets you almost everyone's price in North America.

I doubt we'll get our money back this year. It is more profitable than plain syrup. But it certainly de-bunks the triple the "proffit" pitch. In fact tripel 0 is still 0 and that's all the profit we've made since we started this silliness.

One really neat part of this that I never foresaw. My wife now feels like she's really contributing. She does cream by herself and does most of the porch and farmer's market sales. We all need a bit of ego stroking now and then.

[mapleack]

No one is exaggerating when they say triple profit. If you get 8 lbs of cream per gallon at $12 each you're grossing $96 per gallon. If you sell that same syrup bulk for $33 a gallon, there essentially is your triple profit. As I said before the idea isn't to sell syrup you already have a retail market for, but to sell syrup that you'd normally have to bulk. Or look at it this way, you can buy syrup bulk for $33, turn it into cream and gross an extra $63. This math works for me, I'm shopping for a cream machine.

[PapaSmiff]

I agree with Mapleack. Although I must admit that I have not yet made or sold any cream - I do plan to make and sell it in the future. And here's my thoughts from a marketing and sales perspective.

If you sell all of your syrup retail (no bulk or wholesale) and you sell out every year, it might not make sense to put the capital and labor into making cream.

BUT, if you do not sell out of syrup at retail each year, it DOES make sense.

Customers will only buy so much syrup and candy. But you can get that extra, incremental, impulse sale. If someone comes to my sugarhouse and plans to buy some syrup and candy. They know how much they plan to get. While we are talking, they sample some cream. "Oh, by the way, give me a tub of this stuff too!" There you go, you've made an added sale and are closer to selling out of product without having to sell wholesale or bulk.

Well, that's my plan anyway.

[wiam]

, lose another 2-5% tranferring from the boiling pan to the creamer and lose another 2 - 5% that you can't get out of the creamer.

.

That is why I boil down in my cream pan.

William

[Bucket Head]

When it comes to add-on sales, most people just don't get it. In the retail business it's crucial. In a previous life I worked in some auto parts stores, a dealership parts dept. and a local family-owned hardware store. Add on sales and the importance of impulse buying was stressed to employees and add-on 'how-to' instructions were preached constantly. Why do you think the kid in the paint dept. is always asking 'do you need any brushes?' 'Paint trays?' or 'what about drop cloths?' Those are all add-on sales and the profit they generate adds up. Likewise with impulse buys. Thats why the register area at fine stores everywhere have all that crap near them; magazines, gum, candy, soda, sunglasses, and the hardware store had disposable knives, keyrings, three-prong grounded outlets, air freshners, etc. Anything and everything that someone might see and think, 'Yeah, I'll get that too'. A lost sale is lost profit and thats a cardinal sin in the retail business.

Its up to each producer to figure out what it costs them to make something and if its worth their time to do it. I'm saying if you can get someone to buy something else in addition to their bottle of syrup that they came for, I say job well done.

Just don't follow them out of the sugarhouse and to their car saying, "What about candy? You sure you don't need candy? We have a managers special going on right now on candy. Today only. Its going pretty fast". Thats a turn-off, lol.

Steve

[lew]

I don't look at sugar and cream sales as "add ons". When I go to a farmers market of a festival they are clearly a sale all on their own. Roughly1/3 of our sales will be sugar, 1/3 cream, and 1/3 syrup. If I relied on just syrup sales, I wouldn't bother doing these shows. I also find that cream is the ultimate for giving samples. Just a small dab on the end of a coffee stirrer and you have a conversation piece. They might not buy any cream, but that is when I can usually get my "add on" sale by getting them to buy a small bag of sugar.

[Brent]

maplejack
if you compare the price to wholesale at a gallon, it will look great. We sell everything direct and get $60 a gallon, and don't really like to sell it that way because the return is better in 1/2 quart flasks. Comparing it to that at $12 bucks a pop and it doesn't look so great.

Anyway, this week we sold some off the front porch at $ 14 and we'll see how it goes at the farmer's market.

The add on sales value is great. The cream is at least 1/3 of the dollar value coming in.

We've only ever had 2 customers walk away without buying syrup because of price. One today who said he could buy a gallon for $ 42 further north.
Where I asked. Sault St Marie he said. Just a quick 6 hour drive north from here., and earlier some orientals that said they could buy it cheaper at the duty free at the airport. Boy are they in for a shock.

[argohauler]

Then you get the ones that say I can get it cheaper from the Mennonites. My cousin buys from them every year. Buys around 10 gallons to eat. They paid 36 a 4L this year.

[Mapleman(Greg)]

[QUOTE=lew;154832] Just a small dab on the end of a coffee stirrer and you have a conversation piece. QUOTE]
How big of a dab and what kind of coffee stirrers, the plastic sticks or other.This sounds like a great idea

[lew]

Mapleman(greg),

From my experience, I like the plastic stirrers. Wooden ones tend to "suck" the moisture out of a persons mouth and take away from the experience of tasing the cream. You end up tasting a dry stick also. As far as quantity, nothing bigger than a pea. Any more and some people say "it's too sweet". Well it is solid sugar, so it ought to be sweet, what are they thinking.

[Amber Gold]

We use the sample spoons you can get at iParty.

[Mapleman(Greg)]

LOL I know what you mean with the it's to sweet ..What are they expecting a sour taste