Do I Need a Mainline?

[SeanD]

In another thread http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?t=10800 I read that it is best if laterals run perpendicular to a mainline. I won't be able to do that. I have a layout where there are about 20-25 taps clustered together in one area and then it is a straight 200' shot down a gentle slope on gravity.

If you held your arm in front of you and spread your fingers, the fingers would be the laterals and the arm would be the run to the sugarhouse. That is pretty much the layout for my tubing next year.

What is the best way to run that sap down to the sugarhouse? Is it okay to tie the laterals into the end of a mainline? Should I skip the mainline and just tie into one 5/16 line that acts like a mainline?

Thanks,
Sean

[3rdgen.maple]

Is your total tap count your putting on tubing 20 to 25 taps or is that just one spot. Give us a total of the taps you are putting on tubing.

[SeanD]

That's just one spot. Total taps would be around 50, hopefully more. They are spread out, though. I would have some other groups of trees on laterals into collecting points on neighbors' properties and other trees that aren't grouped together just on buckets. I'd have to collect those daily.

This particular group of trees give me 20-25 taps all in one area where they are close enough to tie them together. From there it's about 200' to the sugarhouse.

Sean

[500592]

I would probaly go with 1/2 in. Tubing it won't hurt to have a little bigger tubing

[DrTimPerkins]

This particular group of trees give me 20-25 taps all in one area where they are close enough to tie them together. From there it's about 200' to the sugarhouse.

Assuming this is a gravity operation, put them all on one lateral line and run it downhill to the sugarhouse. You'll get great natural vacuum that way, which you would NOT get with a mainline.

[adk1]

If you do go with 1/2" mainline, think about that you are going to use for mainline fittings. I was going to go with 1/2" mainline at first, but then realized that they dont make a saddle fitting for 1/2" yet from what I have learned.

[red maples]

For gravity you don't need mainline and make sure the end on the last tree is closed for best nature vac.

But Think about the future if you are thinking of ever putting a vac then you want to use a 3/4 inch tubing and you can always put in the main line and run a branch of mainline over to that group of trees in such away that you will have shorter laterals with less taps per lateral to maximize vacuum transfer through the laterals to the tree. 3/4 is better because there are more maple fittings(Saddles and such ) available for 3/4 tubing.

Good luck

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Bascoms sells a saddle for 1/2" mainline.

[red maples]

oh really...opps...sorry didn't know. I never looked for one but someone told me that when I was asking what size to get a few years ago.

[SeanD]

This has been really helpful for planning and thinking about what to buy. Thanks.

The ground rises between the last tap and the barrels next to the sugarhouse. I've got to get a level and check it for sure, but the line back will be really close to the ground - like a foot off the ground. Is that a major problem?

Sean

[3rdgen.maple]

You might have to shovel the snow off the line at the low spot but it will work. You also could just raise the line a bit higher at the trees and tap a bit higher. I have a few trees that in order to get them online I need a step ladder to pull the taps in the spring. The taps were at shoulder height when I put them in, when I pulled them I couldnt reach them. Maybe the tree grew alot in a few weeks lol.

[wally]

For gravity you don't need mainline .


that's not correct.

i run gravity lines. we have several. indeed, three use only 5/16" laterals, but they only incorporate up to 20 taps. we use 3/4" mainline on the longest run, which collects from over 75 taps. 75 taps won't feed very well into 5/16" mainline, but it works just fine having lateral gravity runs dump into the mainline.
the other mainline has about 35 taps, and it also has 5/16" lateral gravity runs that dump into 3/4" mainline. the laterals feeding the mains have anywhere from 4 to 15 taps.

the laterals will still develop natural gravity, but only to where they reach the mains.

[red maples]

OH I know... it just depends on the set up of course. you can have it dump into anything tank, mainline, bucket what ever. I was just following what Dr. perkins was saying. but on 5/16 tubing you will get better natural gravity with a longer section with more taps on it right!!?? As long as the slope is good!!!

[wally]

there's still a limit to how many taps. eventually, there's too much sap, which doesn't allow air back through, so the flow is slow. at some point, adding new taps to the "run" doesn't gain anything in terms of added production, since the tubing can't evacuate the sap in it any faster.

we used to have the 85-90 tap-line on just laterals. with the switch to incorporating 3/4" mainline, we've seen much higher sap volumes each day on that same "run". most of the laterals feeding into the main do have steep drops to reach the main, but three laterals are relatively shallow-sloped. i'm not going back to all-laterals for the main, except on the short lines with only 10 to 20 taps.

we'll never have anything other than natural vacuum in the bush.

[adk1]

Hm. this post has me thinking now. If I ahve a 100 taps total, all on gravity, would I be better served running a 1/2" mainline or the 3/4" mainline that I was planning on. Originally I was planning on 3/4" because I plan on using saddle's purchased from Leader, which you cant get for 1/2" mainline. Now I understand that Bascom or some other has saddles for 1/2" line. Dont know how those saddles perform though. THoughts? ****, just answered my own question, 1/2" tubing is for up to 50 taps! haha..guess my original 3/4" plan will be the way to go

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

One gravity, you can easily run 200 taps on 1/2" mainline. Might only want to run 50 if you are using vacuum but 200 or more is no problem on gravity.

[adk1]

Hmm. Just went back to Bascom. I dont see the 1/2" mainline saddle listed anyone??

[PerryW]

you can always use the TEES and the six-ways (instead of the saddles) when using 1/2" .

[adk1]

thought about it, but all of my lats will be coming into one side of the mainline, since the mainline will be at the bottom of the hill etc. Plus all of hte trees are so spiraticically spaced.
Secondly, how raf in between trees will someone run a lateral. i.e. I have 4-5 trees that I can pickup without much trouble from the mainline. They are all within say 50'. then Ihave a good 100'+ before I can pick up additional trees that I would get on the same lateral. IT seems like a long way to go to pick up another 4-5 trees.

Lastly, I have realized that there is no way thtat I will be able to use ideal tactics when running laterals. I would expect that I will have alot of bends and zig-zags through the woods to pick up the taps. I also expect to have to install ALOT of "Y"s to pick up trees off to the sides that I cant get to with the lats. IT will be interesting, probably comical really

[stoweski]

'Dak. Stick with your first plan. Run your 3/4" mainline and then run lats. If you plan on tapping the trees that are 100' from the others then figure out which is shorter, running a longer lateral from the first bunch or running a lateral from a different location on the mainline. 3/4" is pretty standard and you'll be able to find plenty of fittings around if you need them. 1/2" sounds like it could be problematic if you are in need of fittings. Just a thought.

You may want to pick up the NYS Tubing & Vacuum System binder available through Bascoms from Cornell. It may be on Cornell's website but I'm not sure. They have layout recommendations in the binder as well as other tips that you may find useful. One that may be of use to you is a picture of two different layouts. I noticed it as I was browsing the book.

Got my line from Long Hill maple in Pittsford. Very nice to deal with and very helpful. Thank Randy Brutkoski (sp?) for the lead. Will be back there when I need more, for sure. A nice little maple store.